By not the computer being the issue I meant that it can't be because of its specs as it's more than adequate to play songs..

This needs to be fixed asap.

Serato help!!

Hi Corex,

There was an issue with hard drives stalling in some Macs which was fixed with Performance Update 1.0, which you can get here -> support.apple.com (click link). Can you try installing this and see if it helps?

I tried running that installer however it says that I need to update to 10.6.1 even though I'm on 10.6.2 (there was no option for that under os listing only 10.6.0).

Any other suggestions? I'm dying with this lag issue. =\

Any other help would really be appreciated here guys..

All my overviews are built, I've deleted all corrupted files from my library, I've tried loading files at a buffer setting of 2,5,10 and 15 and all the same issue. I'm using play from first cue point and play from start.

I hope something in all that helps. If need-be I can take a video too, but BriChi's video in this thread pretty much covers it: scratchlive.net

Pleeeeeeease help me solve this issue. I'm dying here and I have an audition this Thursday and this whole stall/lag problem is killing me especially with the way I spin.

discussions.apple.com

Apparently performance update 1.0 is not included in 10.6.2, which sucks for you... maybe some expert at an Apple store could help you get the update installed and see if that helps?

I spoke to Apple about the performance update and they said that if I had updated it to 10.6.2 the performance update must have already occured automatically.

They suggested I tried the PR Ram reset upon starting up the machine, but that didn't help..

Hey Corex,

From what I can find on www.apple.com there is no mention of Performance Update 1.0 (or fixes for the issues that it solves) being included in 10.6.2. As you've noted it won't run if you've already upgraded to 10.6.2, so other than re-installing from your original Snow Leopard install disk I'm not sure what you can do. The issue you describe is related to the hard drive stalling, which is what this update fixes. I'm surprised Apple were not able to help you more :(

Michael,

Is there any way to downgrade to the version on the installation disk while keeping all my 3rd party applications and their preferences along with my system preferences intact? In otherwords having my system left as is without having anything cleared?

I just configured the mac the way I want it and to have everything cleared along with all my music would honestly be the biggest PITA.

Hey Corex,

Not that I'm aware of, in fact Apple seem to warn against it:

Taken from here -> support.apple.com

Michael,

I talked to Apple Care support along with seeking some help on the Apple Support forums and both had assured me that the Performance Upgrade 1.0 was included in the 10.6.2 update.

Do you think it could be a problem with Scratch Live and its compatibility with Snow Leopoard and the new Macbook Pro's? Honestly I just want a fix for this as it's a pain and I've tried everything Apple has suggested and I'm still getting no where. I'm also truly regretting this 2k laptop.

Let me know.

Sorry to keep bumping this thread and continue with the annoyance but does anyone have a fix? Anyone at all...?

Hey Corex,

Sorry I thought I'd posted a reply to this the other day but looks like it either didn't work or I didn't post it properly, sorry!

I don't have a fix yet, it's still hard to know what the problem is. Past reports of this seem to indicate it's something that has been introduced recently in MacBook Pros, however we thought this had been fixed by Performance Update 1.0. Did you have this lag issue before updating to 10.6.2?

Another thing I'd like to get off of you is your system profile. Can you please follow these steps:

1) Click on the Apple symbol in the top left hand corner of your screen and select About This Mac.
2) A pop-up window will appear, click More Info...
3) You will now see a new window displaying your Hardware Overview. Please copy and paste this info into this thread.
4) Click on the Serial-ATA option in the left hand column.
5) You will now see more information displayed. Please copy and past the info from the bottom window into this thread.

Thanks :)

I never tried running Serato pre-10.6.2. I honestly got the Macbook Pro in the mail, fired her up, and allowed whatever system updates that were out to occur before I started configuring it and installing any other programs like Serato.

Here's the Hardware Overview:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,5
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.53 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP55.00AC.B03
SMC Version (system): 1.47f2
Serial Number (system): W89450VJ66J
Hardware UUID: C825DB9A-BDED-55D2-978D-B96E1CBF6B89
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

Here's the Serial-ATA info:
NVidia MCP79 AHCI:

Vendor: NVidia
Product: MCP79 AHCI
Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.20 Supported

Hitachi HTS545032B9SA02:

Capacity: 320.07 GB (320,072,933,376 bytes)
Model: Hitachi HTS545032B9SA02
Revision: PB3AC60Q
Serial Number: 090920PBD300Q6JE8GBN
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Rotational Rate: 5400
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Macintosh HD:
Capacity: 319.73 GB (319,728,959,488 bytes)
Available: 233.19 GB (233,191,096,320 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /

Sorry if I'm being a little annoying here it's just the issue is a huge pain.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

do you have a friend with a firewire 800 external you can try testing? just an idea, maybe the different interface will give you better results.

No dice on the friend with a firewire external. I've tried using a usb thumb-drive and a usb external; no luck fixing the issue. I mean if it happens on the laptop's hard-drive I doubt using any externals would help solve it..

OK I'm having the same exact problem as Corex. Happened to me at 2 clubs this past weekend. Everytime I would quickly switch a song, the deck and audio would freeze for a second, then start playing. It threw my acapella way off and it was quite embarassing.

Need a fix ASAP please! My friend has an old macbook pro and he never has these problems. On his, the screen may freeze for a second but the audio doesn't lag. On mine, both the screen and audio freezes.

I just traded my new unibody macbook pro for the older version. I'm sad to part with it but it just seems like there's no answer to this problem. No lag problems on the one I traded for.

Michael or any other Serato support person,

Please let me know if there will be a fix for this soon or if you guys know if it's an itunes problem or just a problem with the new macbook pros. I have a week to trade back my laptop.. Thanks!

Hi everyone,

From what I can figure out, this issue is occuring on MacBooks with the EFI Firmware Update 1.7 installed. Corex, from the information you've given me:


You are running Firmware version 1.7 (I found this by going here -> support.apple.com, locating your Boot ROM Version, which then took me here -> support.apple.com)

Now what I can't figure out is whether running Performance Update 1.0 changes this Firmware version (I assume it would) or merely just alters it.

Corex, can I please ask you to check one more thing for me:

1) Click on the Apple symbol in the top left hand corner of your screen and select About This Mac.
2) A pop-up window will appear, click More Info... to open System Profiler
3) Go to Software -> Extensions -> IOAHCIBlockStorage
4) You will now see more information displayed. Please copy and past the info from the bottom window into this thread.

Thanks :)

Here you are Michael,

I am having the problem as well. Also, I the "analyze files" very slow.

Thanks Corex.

Ok I have another couple of things it would be good if you could try:

1) Try installing the Hard Drive Firmware Update 2.0 -> www.apple.com
2) If you haven't already, try resetting your PRAM -> docs.info.apple.com

Please let me know if either of those help :)

Tried the hard drive firmware update 2.0 and the package said this system does not need this update so no dice on getting that to work.

As for the PRAM reset I tried that a couple weeks back when I had consulted Apple Care for this issue. Unfortunately that also didn't work.. =\

I guess the good part of this issue is that I'm not the only one having it so atleast it can be safe to say I don't got a lemon.

lil of subject but, im having the same problem and i hate it, i hold my breath every time i load a track cause it looks like its gon crash... could my problem be that i have my playlists set up through itunes??

Any advancements on the issue, Michael?

Hi everybody, I´m from Germany and I´m new here. I have the same Problem. If I load a track it lags. Sometimes there is just a short lag but other times its lagging for a few seconds. 2 times even the sound went off and this happened at the Club! I´ve got the newest Mac Book Pro 13" and I tried nearly all to fix this problem. They changed my RAM, they Changed my HDD i reinstalled OS and now I installed Snow Leopard.

I really need help and I think a lot of other people too!

Sorry if my english is not that good, but I think you can understand it :-)

THX

mine actually did crash cause the hard drive stalled so long serato just gave up and froze my whole computer.. And Im on a 2008 model MBP so your not alone guys.

Please, visit this: www.scratchlive.net
I have this same issue, and they (serato) say to make a request at feature suggestions!

Hey Corex,

I'm afraid I'm running out of things for you to try :( I really do think this is an issue with the computer rather than the software but it could be a good idea to try running an earlier version of Scratch Live and see if the problem is still there. Can you please try 1.8.3 and tell me if you have the same problem? You can get it here -> www.serato.com (click link). Note: please make sure you backup your ScratchLIVE folder before running 1.8.3 just in case :)

Hey dOGDaia,


Your issue seems to be different than the one that Corex is experiencing, please let's keep this thread on topic :)

Michael,

Can it really be the computer if there are several other people experiencing the same issue? I'll try the earlier version for sure, however will it work with Snow Leopard?

Hi Michael,

I just tried Serato 1.8.3 on Snow Leopard. It works. But still lags when loading tracks. Maybe we find another solution :-)

THX

Michael,

Still happens with 1.8.3. Is there any way Serato can pin-point this issue and offer up some sort of fix in the next version as I am definitely not the only one here that is suffering from the problem.

Stupid ass mac's, I knew I should have stuck with my pc's...

yes that´s right Corex! I would preciate it!

Hey guys,


Of course :) As I understand it the hard drive stalling issue only affected a small subset of Macs, so say if you and Dj B.D both had Macs that fell into this catergory you would both be having this problem. So to follow on from this, here are the makes and models that fall into this subset:

Corex and Dj B.D, you are both using 13" MacBook Pros - correct? Do they fall into the date range listed above?

To go back right to the start, I spoke on the phone with Spinbad regarding this issue, and it was only happening to him on the newest Mac that he had purchased. It was not to do with upgrading from, say, 1.8.x to 1.9.x that caused the problem to occur it was the new machine.

So where it gets tricky is trying to solve this. If it is due to the hard drive on the Mac, there is nothing we can do at our end to fix it. The problem is is that the hard drive is not getting the file info to Scratch Live quickly enough, hence the lag. I believe if you load a track the first time it lags, however on subsequent re-loads it works as expected. This is because the file is now cached in the hard drive (when you re-start your computer this will be lost).

Corex, you said earlier that you had spoken with Apple - did they say what they thought could be causing this issue? Had they heard of it before?

Dj B.D, can you please tell me which version of OS X you are running?

Please note guys that I'm not trying to fob you off and say it is definitely Apples fault, I'd also like to get this issue resolved! Hopefully we can find a fix that solves this :)

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the answer! I´m running OS 10.6.2 now! But I run the older versions befor too having the same issue. The Apple Store is going to change the mainboard tommorow. I dont know if it is a solution. They allready changed the RAM and the HDD. We´ll see if its better after the operation. I´ll give you more information then.

Have a nice day!

No worries :) Please let me know how you get on, I'd be very keen to see if Apple can help solve this!

Out of interest, did you run Performance Update 1.0 before you upgraded to 10.6.2?

Michael,

Apple has not heard of the issue, instead they directed the problem being specific to Serato. The only course of action they had recommended was a PR Ram reset, nothing else.

I just hope someone can figure out a fix to this cause it's seriously an energy killer when spinning not being able to quickly switch a song on the fly.

Hi there, i'm going to buy a new macbook, i mean why would you go out to buy an old one? So again i say to SERATO what your saying is that new mac books arnt supoted in the way they dont work very well with serato, ok so i'll go buy a pc OW f**k windows 7 isnt supported aswell. Seriously you guys have the best dj software out there and its now all slipping away by the fact you cant use it with out problems on NEW laptops/macbooks.

I hope you guys buy a new macbook and a windows 7 laptop and really try and get to the bottum of these problems, because as times goes on your going toget more pppl buying new laptops and getting new customers with there new laptops, and there all just going to have nightmares with it.

anyway rant over, wish my old xp laptop didnt die as serato run perfect on it and had no problems.

love the product and your surpport just please try and get on these issues with the macs, much love woolsey

Hey Michael,

I have got 4GB RAM in my new MacBookPro ! Could that probably make problems? Someone told me about that. But I dont really belive that! Thank you.

I fall into this same category:

Macbook Pro 13" (purchased Aug 2009) - 4gb ram, OS X v10.5.8

Meticulously care for my library, overviews built, no corrupt tracks, have tried reading itunes library and option unchecked as well.

I've run performance update 1.0, and still have the dreaded lag at times when loading tracks. Sometimes (not always) it will recover, other times it crashes (screen freeze, audio stops), then eventually recovers.

Damn... seems to be a real big problem! Hope Serato or Apple can solve this! But I have to wait on my MacBook because they change the Mainboard as I told befor. We´ll seee...

:/

Don't forget please! Put this at feature suggestions: www.serato.com

yep...i am still having the lagtime-stutter-overview freeze issue, too

Watchwww.youtube.com

This issue is also happening to another dj I know. He has a new 17" macbook pro with 4 gigs of ram and 500gb hard drive.

Michael, if more people report the issue do you think Serato as a company could approach Apple and consult them for a fix by any chance? As of now there are quite a few people experiencing it so I'd say we're getting pretty close to that point.

Hey Corex (and everyone else),

Yes this issue is very concerning, and unfortunately I can't give you a solution or even the exact cause right now.

I'm going to get some advice from our Test Team guys as they know a lot more about Scratch Live and computers than I do and see what we can come up with regarding this.

Thanks to all of you for your patience and feedback!

Hay michael thanks it means alot. Fingers crossed they find what it is and not to big a deal to fix.

Michael,

Thanks for keeping us updated. Hopefully they find a solution - knock on wood.

Let us know of any breakthroughs.

Thanks.

I'm heading into the Apple store this evening for a genius bar appointment to try and address this. Many people on the Apple forums with the HD lag/stall issues are reporting a SATA cable or cable+drive replacement has fixed the issue, so fingers crossed!

I'll likely take the SL3 box with me (only) so I can try and replicate the issue by loading/playing tracks in INT mode (of course I wont have audio but I can hopefully see the lag/stalls when loading tracks).

Hey zackhill,

I'll be very interested in what you find out - please keep us posted!

Michael, has the tech team made any advancements on the issue? I know it's getting close to Christmas time so everyone is probably taking time off so do you think it would be a while till any real updates are made?

Hey Corex,

No I'm afraid we haven't found what is causing this yet :( I'd really like to know how the oher users who have posted in this thread are getting on after any hardware changes they've made.

Hi,

after changing the mainboard I still had this issue. But I tried something else. I fixed the Database V2 as you explained it in this frorum! there were no lags for a time. But it seems to come again after a while. Do I have to analise all files again after doing the thing with the Database V2?

have a nice christmas!!!!

hi I have the same exact issue what do you mean when you say you fixed the database v2 thing? please explain it lags when I load a track for a split second but no crashes or freezes of music or program just lags for a split second about every other track!!!! I just updated my os to 10.5.8 I hope this works

Michael,

Oh no... that's all i got right now, oh no... =[

my program has not crashed, but i'm stressin' it. i also noticed my computer is beachballing for an extended time when loading files from my folders.

Hi all,


Ok, thank you very much for the update. Hopefully the SATA cable replacement that zackhill mentioned earlier may have better results.


I'm very surprised that this would make a difference, as no overview information is stored in the database file. If anyone else would like to test this out it would be greatly appreciated, there is an article here on how to make a new database V2 file -> www.serato.com (click link). Please let me know your findings with this!

Just to let you all know I'm now on holiday, returning on January 5th so please don't be offended if your posts go unanswered until then :)

Update:

I took my MBP in and explained the issue. They replaced my hard drive and sata cable per my request. I also noticed they upgraded me to Snow Leopard.

I returned home and restored a time machine backup of my HD I had taken before getting it repaired, and noticed a considerable improvement in speed when performing tasks, no beachballing, etc.

I played at home for hours on end, and had zero lag issues with the scratchlive application.

I took the MBP with me for a new years eve gig and soundchecked using an SL1 box that the club had already installed. Within seconds of configuring the turntables, I beachballed (when trying to zoom out the circles to 2x to see them). I shut down the laptop, restarted, and everything seemed ok. I configured everything and was slamming through tracks, loading them one after the next just to load-test everything before playing. Everything seemed ok.

Come gig time, I restarted the MBP and got going. About 4-5 tracks in I beachballed when loading a track onto the right deck (left deck was playing), and audio dropped. I quickly loaded up a regular vinyl record instead on the right deck when I saw the beachball so as soon as the audio cut out I slammed into it. Audio came back on the left deck (playing control record) in about 30 seconds, so I mixed back in, then went into the settings and increased the usb buffer (just to be safe) to about the 1/2 way point. Audio cache is all the way to the right, as is the screen refresh.

Just to refresh memory, i'm on a macbook pro 13" with 4gb ram, 320gb HD.
I was playing tracks off of the internal HD only (no EXT HD in my setup)

I'd be willing to troubleshoot privately or however needed in order to get this issue resolved. While I got through the rest of the NYE gig with no issues, my heart was stopping each time I loaded a track thinking I might have to slam into a regular record again if it froze up on me. It's literally 10000% rock solid on my home setup, so I dont know if it's because it's connected in a bigger setup (much more powerful soundsystem), older turntables, or what that causes it to freak out in clubs vs at home.


Thanks guys,
Zack

Zack,

I've never experienced the beach ball issues, and hopefully I wont (knock on wood), but did you have the track load issue? You said you continued to load track after track, but for me the lag occurs after playing one track for a little bit and then loading a new one on the opposite deck and it won't come on instantaneously.

BriChi's video which I had linked earlier is what I'm experiencing. Did you have that issue along with the beachball before getting the HD and SATA cable replaced?

Yes, my initial issue was that there was a lag when loading a new track to a deck while one was playing on another deck. Often times this was a very small lag (under a second) and never affected any playback (audio or on-screen). I was told this was normal for all serato users/computers.

My problem is that at times, the one second lag would turn into 5-10-20-30 seconds, and eventually beachball on me. Once that happened, sometimes it would recover before losing audio, but often times would not, and I would lose audio and have to wait for the system to recover.

Since replacing the SATA cable and HD, this has only happened the one time as described above. I was playing a track, went to load a new track onto the other deck, got a lag, then it beachballed and dropped audio on me. Once everything came back (~30 sec later), it was fine from there on, however every time I load a new track I worry its going to take longer than the split-second I'm told it's supposed to, and i'll lose audio again.

Hope that clears up your question. In short, the answer is yes, the sata cable/HD replacement has helped somewhat, however I do still see a split-second lag when selecting/loading tracks, and one time it caused audio to drop out as it stalled loading.

Another thing I've noticed seemed to help (not sure why) was unchecking the protect playing deck option where you have to stop the track before you can load another. I've left this unchecked (off) and seem to have less lag when loading tracks. It worries me though as I'd prefer it on so I don't load a track onto the current playing deck.

So the SATA cable replacement helped, however it did not solve the split-second lag that occurs when loading a track. It did on the other hand help with the beachballing issue (although not completely fix it).

So in short, even with a hardware replacement the track load lag issue continues.

As for having the protect playing deck option I always have that unchecked as that's where the issue stems from (being able to load a track on the fly and have it on beat).

Also I don't know if I stated this before or if it helps at all but I do also have the 'put hard-disk to sleep when possible' option under energy saver unchecked.

Hey Guys,

Sounds like you're having a frustrating time. I have a few more questions to try and figure out whats going on.

Are you laptop's on stands or on a desk? Are you loading using the keyboard?
If you're on a non stable surface and you hit the keys with any force it may trigger the sudden movement sensor which will park the harddrive and cause a beachball.

You could try turning it off and see if that helps. support.apple.com
It's an outside chance but it may be worth a try.

Also how much space is free on your harddrive? OSX can get pretty sluggish if your drive is full and when we load a song we need to read the tags to get the cue points. If the drive is too full it may slow you down just enough to cause the audio to drop out.
I'd suggest making sure you have around 20% of your disk free for best performance.

Let me know if either of those help.
Thanks
Dylan.

My laptop was on a very sturdy stand. I load using the keyboard (command+arrow).
I've got about 90% free on my HD right now, brand new laptop and SSL is the only app I've loaded, along with my music.

The lag occurs for me on both, stand or desk – both are sturdy. Loading tracks using command + arrow on the keyboard aswell. As for harddrive space, 220 GB free out of 320 GB – I don't got the crazy intense music collection like everyone else on this forum seems to have. My laptop is also brand new, I got it maybe 2 or 3 days before the original post (November 13 2009).

I disabled the sms as requested above just to see if it makes any difference. I read up a bit on it and it doesn't sound like there's any risk of damage to the HDD by disabling this as long as i'm not tossing the thing around when writing to the disk?

My only issue is I cant ever seem to get SSL to act up on me at home, only at gigs. I've got one this Saturday, I suppose I'll bring the laptop and my cd case with me and give it a go to see how things work out. I'll report back.

Yeah the sms is pretty much to stop the hard disk borking if you drop the machine while it's running. If it doesn't make any difference then I'd suggest turning it back on though.

Thanks for your help Zack and for the update Corex.

I'll go over this with the team some more and see if we can figure it out. It'll be some common element on your systems that is causing problems we just need to figure out what it is.

We'lll come back with some more ideas soon.
Thanks
Dylan.

Thanks for the continued research on your end. In reading back as this thread gets lengthy, it appears there's actually two issues (sorry to have hijacked Corex)

1: Small lag (under 1-2 seconds) when loading a track onto a deck.

2: SSL becoming unresponsive (30sec and greater) and sometimes dropping audio/crashing when loading a track onto a deck.


Issue 1 seems to be isolated to mid-2009 macbook pro's (if i'm not mistaken) and essentially only causes issues when trying to quickly load/mix tracks on beat with no/minimal cueing.

Issue 2 also seems to be isolated to mid-2009 macbook pro's (again from what I've read), and causes major issues when using SSL. I'm hopeful the replacement of the SATA cable and HDD in these units resolves these issues, however have yet to confirm as I had one incident since replacing the aforementioned parts, which could or could not have been related. I will continue to test to see if we can confirm the replacement parts resolved this issue completely.

im curious is anyone having this issue with 1.8.3???

also would it be safe to go from 1.92 to 1.83 cause on my pc i never once had a lag or any issue so im wondering if possibly the newer versions are not likin macs? lol

If you had read some of the earlier posts you would have seen that yes, the problem exists in 1.8.3 as well.

Dylan,

I have yet to try turning off the sudden motion sensor. As soon as I give that a go I'll report back. Hopefully that works.

Cool thanks for trying that out, it's worth a shot to see if that has anything to do with your issues.

We can't reproduce this issue on the mac's we have here (we have lots!) so it must be something specific to your machines.

We're collecting some more info and we'll get back to you guys soon, there's go to be a solution in here somewhere.

Speak soon.
Thanks
Dylan.

Dylan,

I just tried turning off the sudden motion sensor and it didn't help with the track lag issue.

Just so everyone else knows I found a slight work around on this issue. Using instant doubles loading the playing track on the opposite deck and then loading the new track on beat on the old deck has helped. Although this doesn't really help when you're trying to load a track with an acapella or loop playing it's something until Serato manages to find a fix.

Thanks

Hey Corex, zackhill, Dj B.D and everyone else :)

Thanks for all your input on this, we're still trying to find out why this issue is happening. If everyone who is having this issue could please do the following it would be a BIG help to us :)

1) Click the Apple icon in the top left hand corner of your screen and select "About This Mac".
2) Click the "More Info..." button.
3) When System Profiler opens click File -> Save As...
4) Save your system profile with your Serato forum username in the filename.
5) Attach the system profile to this thread.

We're trying to compile a list of all the systems this is happening on in the hope of reproducing the issue.

Attached is my system profile - zackhill

Done.

Thanks guys, much appreciated :)

If you know of anyone else experiencing this issue please point them to this thread.

Hey guys,

A bit of a long shot but could you please try this:

1) Ensure your power supply is connected.
2) Open System Preferences -> Energy Saver.
3) Where you see the "Graphics" option, select "Higher Performance".

Does this make any difference at all?

Michael,

I don't see the 'Graphics' option anywhere under 'Energy Saver'. There's only 'Put the hard disk to sleep when possible', 'Wake for network access', 'Automatically Reduce Display Brightness before sleep', and 'Show battery status in menu bar'.

Am I missing something?

I dont see that option either, under Energy Saver I have:

Battery | Power Adapter (toggle between the two)

Under each of those 2 settings, I have set the same:

Computer Sleep (1min-Never) - SET TO NEVER
Display Sleep (1min-Never) - SET TO NEVER

[ ] Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible (UNCHECKED)
[ ] Wake for network access (UNCHECKED)
[ ] Automatically reduce brightness before display goes to sleep (UNCHECKED)

(Restore Defaults)
(Schedule)

[X] Show battery status in the menu bar (CHECKED)

Hi guys thought id join in although i have already asked for help about this problem a while ago. Havent managed to get a video recording as of yet but heres my saved system profile. Something else is happening to my waveforms I dont know about the rest of the guys but Im getting a "wobble" in both waveforms whilst the song is playing. Doesnt affect the audio but is very annoying...Anyone else???

Meant to mention I cant see the graphics option either.

Ok guys not to worry, it seems to be a feature available only on select MacBook Pros. Thanks for trying tho :)

heres mine thank you! also from some research i noticed this seems to happen only on seagate hds???

Specialefx,

I have a Hitachi drive so it can't be specific to Seagates...

cool thank you I guess that clears that up

I'm having the same issue as described above "My problem is that at times, the one second lag would turn into 5-10-20-30 seconds, and eventually beachball on me. Once that happened, sometimes it would recover before losing audio, but often times would not, and I would lose audio and have to wait for the system to recover."

Would like to uninstall/install SSL, do you know of any way or tool to completely wipe it?

Can you list your system specs and attach a profile (if you're on a mac)?
It'd be helpful for the team working on this I'm sure.

Here you go: dl.dropbox.com
Do you know how to uninstall it?

Thanks,

I hope that the 2.0 version can solve this issue... what you people think?

^^^^ Nope.

Hi Michael,

unfortunately I have the same problem.
I purchased the MAC on December 2009 ( Mac Bok Pro 15" 2.5GHz 320Gb ).
I live in Italy .. an I got the same problem of Corex and zackhill ( and I think also many other guys ) so this means that really a lot of people has this problem.
Moreover I have reduced the refresh screen to 30 FPS .. otherwise about every 5 seconds the waveform stuttering.

On youtube I found this video .. that shown the problem I have:
Watchwww.youtube.com ( about delay )
Watchwww.youtube.com ( about stuttering )

Attached my System Profile.

Same version 1.9.2 works correctly on my PC desktop.

I tried to move my song into an external USB hard drive.. but the problem is still present.
So I don’t think s that the problem is related to the Internal HD.

Unfortunately I don’t think we can ask to apple to solve this problem ..
We need of your help.

I hope my system profile can help you in your investigation …

Please let us know.

Ciao

Mi Michael,

I found this thread ..
www.serato.com
This is my problem related to the stuttering.

I forgot to tel you that I'm using MAC with OS 1.6.2

Ciao,
Gioacchino.

Hi guys

this is a real long history.

www.serato.com

Someone tried to install the 1.8.3 version and check if the problem was present also in this version or not ?

Ciao.

here is my profile dl.dropbox.com

Hi gevola,

The issues you are describing are not the issue that this thread is about. This thread relates to a delay in track loads that was not present on earlier MacBook models. Can you please start a new help request for your issues, thanks.

Thanks Michael,

I started a new help request (www.serato.com) .. anyway ( but probably is just my impression ) I think that these issues are related to the same "problem".
In fact me too I have the same problem described by corex.
When I drag a track into a deck, often happens that the track is loaded after two seconds (seems that the application freeze).
So I'm still interested how solve also this problem.

Ciao.

hmmm No .. I said a nonsense.
One problem is related to the display refresh … and the second to the file reading.

Well guys I deleted the database folder then rescan the idtags and problem solved for me! No more lags tested it for three hours and no lag so it seems to be a database issue that's occuring

Hi djspecialefx,
my problem is that my database cover .. a lot of MP3 .. anyway i will and I let you know.

I tried that long ago djspecialfx, but the problem quickly came back once I shut down, went to a gig and started back up

Update for me:

I haven't used my laptop for any gigs recently, but at home everything seems to be working nicely. I haven't had any beachballing, and dont notice much lag (maybe a split second) when loading tracks. I have noticed that tracks with artwork seem to take a second longer than those without.

I have my artwork done via itunes, and when I have the setting in the bottom left set to hide artwork I dont notice as much of a lag.

Perhaps 2.0 will address/resolve this issue?

I'm hesitant to try the laptop at a gig unless its setup for serato and cd's so I can quickly switch over to CDs should I encounter the issues I was on new years eve and prior.

many people from what i am reading think that a bigger hard drive is better. as somewhat a computer geek myself, i would not only look at the size the hard drive can hold but also the speed it rotates if we are talking about an hhd which is the hard drive that most macbook pros use.
if this issue is related to the hard drive, i would say to have it replaced to a faster one like a 320 gb 7200 rpm hard drive. and if you are willing to spend money on something you can truly depend on would be getting a SSD (solid state drive) which is almost impossible to crash and runs very fast making the regular hard drives running 5400 rpms seem slow.
other than this i have no other advice i could give you since i dont really have this problem and i run scratch live to its max specs;
minimum buffer latency, max frame refresh, instant doubles, hi fi resampler and such. i prefer to keep my itunes and serato separate to avoid any mishaps.
my computer is a macbook pro with 2.26 gHz with 3 gb of ram (soon to upgrade to 8 gb and try and use the video plug in), 320 gb western digital hard drive (scorpio, internal hard drive 7200 rpms) and will soon try and replace it with a solid state myself like my other laptops. i have a western digital mybook 1 TB and use the firewire 800 to connect to my macbook. i'm also using the snow leopard version 10.6.2 and for the past two weeks i have been testing the macbook pro by booting it into 64 bit kernel instead of the factory 32 bit.

HI djspecialefx,



please can you tell me if the problem seems realy fixed ?

Guys it's not a HD issue at all!!' I simply deleted the database and rescan idtags and the problem is gone so it's something in that database folder that's getting cluttered with too much info so just give it a try guys

djspecialefx - we've all attempted the database cleanup/rebuild as stated previously in the thread. While it's awesome that it worked for you and resolved your issues, others in this thread continue to have issues as described above.

Lets not clutter up the thread and ensure that those still in need of support get the attention they require.

Glad it's working for ya though.. nice one!

Well guys guess I jinxed myself the lag is back!!! Ahhh it was
good for a week now it's back help serato!!!

I do notice that if I rescan my id3 tags before each gig, the tracks load smoother

Hi.

I have been reading this thread with interest and some concern, as I am about to enter the world of Serato and am buying a laptop especially for this purpose.

All advice seems to point to a Macbook Pro, but this seems like a serious issue. Should I wait until this is resolved or is there every chance that if I buy a new MBP now it could work fine.

I hope this isn't seen as hijacking this thread, as it is precisely this issue that's causing my hesitation. I guess it could do with a bump too!

@prince far 1
as a pc and macbook pro user, i would definitely recommend you go with the mbp. this problem seems to affect only a certain amount of people and not all. what you really have to take in consideration would be that even though the specs of the cheapest mbp are higher than the minimum specs serato requires, you should look into something with more capacity regarding space, ram, processor speed and such. it may come out to be a bit more expensive but if you are willing to invest in something, might as well make it on something good that could handle the extra work in case you decide to expand onto bigger things like video mixing and such. hope this helps

None of the Serato guys have chimed in for a good while now, any status updates on the progress you guys can pass along?

Hey Corex,

We're still here, but don't have any good news yet I'm afraid :(

What we have found is with that all users who are having this issue, their system profiles show that they have the new nVidia MCP79 chipset installed. This chipset is the SATA controller (amongst other things) and possibly the cause of this issue.

More investigation is needed obviously, but I think we're starting to get a picture of where the problem may be occuring :)

There are some fairly lengthy posts on the apple forum with users having issues with the MCP79 chipset and 3gbps sata throughput rates with 3rd party hard drives.

This one is over 100 pages long and covers a few different beach ball issues.

discussions.apple.com

Given that that hdd's you all have seem to be different it may be that particular hard drives when combined with this chipset cause issues. It's really hard to tell becuase there is no official information and lots of different information from users (I read for about half an hour and only got through a small section of the posts)

From what I can tell the updated firmware which enabled the 3bps throughput rate when combined with the MCP79 chipset and certain hardrives causes beach balls.

All of your sata controllers are running at Sata II hard drive speeds of 3Gbps, before the firmware update most mac systems only ran at Sata I speeds of 1.5 Gbps. Most of the users reporting this problem are users that have had their machines for a while and have recently upgraded the hard drive, it is possible though that this is happeneing with new machines given that they all seem to have different makes of hard drives in them.

I'm not sure if that actually helps you at this point but it took me a while to figure that out so I thought I'd share. We also have a brand new macbook pro in the office that is beach balling when doing anything, even simple stuff like trying to open an email takes a minute so there is definately some hard drive weirdness going on with the new mac book pros.

We'll keep looking into it and keep you posted next week, hopefully we can find a workaround or apple provide a solution soon.

Cheers
Dylan.

Hi Dylan,



Can be my problem www.serato.com related to the same HD issue ?

Ciao.

That apple thred mostly goes on about its the SATA cable, but someone has already tried that and it did'nt work for them.

also it only seems tobe a problem if ppl have changed the harddrive that came with there mac book from new.

So have all the peeps here changed there harddrives?

im looking toget a macbook pro 13" 2.53ghz - 4gb - with the 500gb harddrive.

but iv been watching this thread and putting it off, as i dont wana go spend £1,500 on a new mac and it be no good to use serato with. It will be my first ever apple macbook pro. I'm only getting it as i havnt got a laptop now as my xp one died, and everyone on here recondmends macs. Well just have to have my fingers crossed that it dont mess up when i buy it or that there is one day going tobe a fix. but i cant see it if there hasnt been a fix since june 2009, not long till june 2010 a year on.

@LJ - I upgraded my HD to the 320 gb instead of the stock but how would an ugrade lead to more problems? Weird.

@Serato - Thanks for the heads up... Hope you guys can figure out a solution soon cause it's killin me here.

hey guys, Just an FYI: upgrading the Macbook/Macbook pro's HD to a WD drive can lead to issues, I had it bad and had to follow a list steps to resolve a power resume issue on the drive. Seems like the newer drives have shock protection and so does the Mac so they are conflicting. Check this Macrumors thread, it gives the answer: forums.macrumors.com

I noticed it because my HD kept sounding like it was spinning up then down constantly and I would get the beach ball from time to time which I never got with the previous drive so I started researching and that is what I found, Once I did this HDAPM fix, the laptop works 100 times better. I still get the 1 second delay on track load though in Serato

Well guys I notice a temp fix when I delete thr database file before each gig and re scan I'd tags it works fine but next time loading up it comes back so it. May very well be a database issue???

I dont even delete the DB, I just scan b4 each gig and it works fine as a temp fix

I played a gig this weekend (finally) using my laptop again and didn't have any issues at all. Since the sata cable/drive replacement I've noticed a lot less lag/issues. Still get nervous when I scroll through tracks and it takes a split second to display the cover art, and when I load the track using the shortcut keys, but no freezing, beachballs, or audio dropouts at all, which is bringing my confidence back..

zachill, did you simply replace the cable or the drive as well?

Any1 still having this problem with the 2.0 beta?

I had the cable and the drive replaced together.

I haven't installed the 2.0 beta yet, now that 1.9.2 is stable for me I'm sticking with it for a bit.

Hi zachill,

where do you bought the replacement cable ?

FYI: This is something I have been complaining about since 2006, check this thread serato.com

Still not fixed obviously and I doubt that simply replacing a cable is a permanent fix being that I have been through 3 laptops since the original complaint and all 3 of them have the same issue

I really thing they're onto something with it being related to the specific chipset. That said, the whole beachball/freezing up issues seems to have been resolved (for me anyway) with getting the SATA cable/drive replaced. Plenty of documentation in that Apple thread on performance issues with the drives.

I didn't buy the cable, I had it replaced under my warranty.

The other issue of not being able to use the shortcut keys to load a track and have it instantly load on beat is a separate issue that I really don't know anything about. I dont use the application that way, so it hasn't affected me like some of the others (spinbad, brichi, etc...). I'm a relatively new SSL user, so I haven't seen it used in earlier versions, though it sounds like it's something that used to work and has started lagging some in the more recent versions?

that's a good point, i think we are talking about 2 different freeze issues here, the one i complain about is what you just said, instant load being off beat

Hey BriChi,

I'd have to agree - I think that's two different issues :)

We believe this to be hardware/firmware related, so I don't think 2.0 will solve it. With that said, if anyone finds 2.0 does fix it - please let us know!

Any updates?

Hi Dylan do you have some news?

Sorry Guys,

Basically I'm a little stumped. From everything that's been said here it seems to me that the "Beachball/long lag time when loading tracks" issue is really a hardware issue with Apple laptops and certain hard drive controllers and firmware. I think in all these cases any realtime program that uses the hard disk is going to have issues on your system.

That doesn't really help you though =( The tricky bit is providing apple enough info so they can fix your machines under warranty. I spoke with a service tech today and he said that if it was an issue with hard drive preformance it would most likely show up under stress tests, unfortunately these can only be performed by apple so we're back to where we started. i.e. needing to convince apple that this is a hardware issue.

I had a look at the apple hardware test program that comes with a mac but it doesn't seem to tell me anything useful about hard drive speed. If any of you that are having this problem have time you could try booting the hardware test program off the second install CD that came with your mac and tell me if that tells you anything useful? It may come up with some kind of error, the machine I tried here is fine but that doesn't really help things much as it doesn't reproduce the issue in the first place.

What I'm really looking for is an OSX hardrive benchmarking tool that can prove that these issues are related to poor hard drive performance so you guys can get your machines fixed. Has any one here used a decent hard drive speed benchmarking tool for OSX?

If we can find one I think we can easily prove if this is a hard drive problem, I'm almost 100% that's the issue but it'd be good to get some data from your machines and find out for sure.

I'll keep looking, let me know if anyone has any luck.
Cheers
Dylan

PS. Corex, I almost gaurantee if you go back to the stock harddrive the problem will go away. the issue seems to come about when combining the MCP79 chipset in your machine with the 3gbps perfromance update and a 3rd party or untested hard drive.

It just looks like some hard drives firmware have issues with 3gbps, unfortunately all the manufacturers hard drive firmware update programs are for PC's so with a mac you're a bit screwed. Changing the HDD back might be your only option, did you get it done in a store or did you do it yourself?

d.

Dylan,

I ordered the laptop online from the Apple website and ordered it with the 320 GB harddrive instead of the original, so really I got no option to go back and install the original.

I'll look for those original install discs, but I honestly have no idea where they went - maybe it'll turn up. Hope someone else has theirs and can help out way more than I can though.

I appreciate you still hammering away at the issue though, and not forgetting about us struggling. Hope it'll come to a close soon.

Thanks

Ah right,

So it's not a stock drive but it is an apple supplied one. It's still probably the cause of the issue, the difficulty is proving it to ourselves and then to apple so they can do something about it.

I'll keep digging next week and see if I can find a benchmarking program, then we'll know for sure.

In the meantime if you can be bothered you might try going into an apple store where they do repairs and telling them your probelm is "hard disk performance" rather than a specific software issue. If you point them to the threads I linked to on the apple forum above and go on about how you think you have a sata throughput issue related to the 3bps firmware update and your non stock hardrive then they might at least run it through the apple benchmarking tools for you. As soon as you say it's a 3rd party software issue they won't want to know about it.

If we can get some solid data then this all becomes a lot easier so we'll see how we go.

Cheers
Dylan.

hey guys i have the exact same issue when playing fast like Spinbad / corex my old black macbook is faster than my new macbook pro it wont load on the beat. the new mackbookpro has more ram faster processor and the loading is about .75 of a second slower. this problem is really effecting my sets. both lap tops have 500 gig drives so im thinking bout swapping the drives to see if that is the problem. both drives are from apple dealers. i have had my new computer two weeks and and played at least 10 gigs on it and its never crashed but that load time really puts you behind another bar when mixing fast. here is my system profile

dl.dropbox.com

thanks Tenzin Sydney Australia

well guys, i have started noticing that the more music i add to my external hd, the more the lag time increases when loading tracks but its only the visual part, bc the sound still comes thru so one could still mix but unlike most djs, you actually have to do it with your ears instead of watching the screen.
anyways i have been doing some testing of my own and what it consist off is basically adding only a few tracks at the time to the internal and external hd at a time. separately of course since from what i have read here deals with the issue being the internal hd of a mbp.
after adding a few hundred tracks the lag started occurring but no sound drop out happened through out the entire process. which i have done about 4 to 5 times for each hard drive.
what seems to affect the lag time is the quantity of folders you have inside the hd which makes reading data from one folder to the next lag a bit.
what i have done for the most part of my library is keep my music in just one folder for easy accessibility. this has helped keep the leg off when loading tracks from the same folder but when loading tracks from different folders, the lag shows up again.
this result has happened when testing on 4 different hd's two internals and 2 externals.
i would place all my music in a single folder but unfortunately i have about a good 300 gb so it is very time consuming.
another thing that has also worked for me to lower the lag time has been overclocking the GPU of the mbp which is not really recommended unless you really know what you are doing. also the mbp becomes hot as it is so by overclocking it you will make it even hotter so proper ventilation is required. i did this for a while and no lag appeared but figured since no lag on the audio happened in the first place i did not really need the screen for the first few seconds so i switched back to factory settings again.
my mbp's specs are: 2.26 gHz, 320 gb 7200 rpms, 8 gb ram, and running snow leopard on 64 bit not 32.

I have been having the same problem, however its not just when loading tracks, it will randomly freeze and cut out the music. and sometimes the track wud play in reverse for a second... (honestly it was funny but the crowd didnt like it.lol) also this is mainly with serato but iv noticed general lagging with the whole computer since i put all my music on the HD, at first i only loaded about 3000 tracks which i needed and run and external HD with the rest on. but once i put all the tracks on the hd.. about 100gig more thats when the lagging started. but all apps are slow... ever typing this is freezing while i type sometimes. so im quite confused as to whether this is just with my comp or are others experiencing performance issues with other software?

i bought my macbook about a month ago, 15" 2.53ghz 250gb hd 4g ram.

im gonna take it back tomorrow and see if they have any ideas. will keep u posted.

Good luck cnewton.

I had the same issue when changing my stock macbook pro hard drive with a 640Gb western digital drive.

applying the hdamp fix to it has (for the moment) fixed it.

but if you have any luck at the apple store I may be headed back there to get a new one too!

sorry for my stupidity but what is the 'hdamp' fix?

im pretty gutted as i upgraded from pc to mac so i wudnt have embarrassing moments being booed.lol pc run like a dream compared to this!

this is my post above, hdapm is linked

Hi Dylan,
sorry but I think you ( Serato ) can provide all technical information to Apple.
I think that Serato software engineers can wrote a test code that shown the problem of latency.

If you are able to talk with the Apple Software Enginers, and then sent to them the description of problem ( with technical description ), then our ( user ) we can sent to the Apple our comment/feedback.

So if you are able to reproduce the problem and know what is wrong ( read time from HD too slowly ) Apple should try to fix it.

Hi latinng204 ,
can you teel my how you have overclocked the MPB?

gevola

If you want to keep a stable system I would strongly recommend you don't overclock it.

There's no point risking your system purely for this.

I'm sure your laptop is more than capable of running SSL and I would suggest a little more patience for the issue to be fixed.

If your system melts down as a result of overclocking, the hard dive lag will be the least of your worries.

gelova... bumbo08 is right, OC-ing a laptop is very risky and i only did it for testing purposes only, (if you could afford to burn a mbp then overclock away, but i am in no way responsible for your actions) that is why i ended up switching it back to factory settings. the only thing you could overclock in a mbp is the graphics card through the bios in windows which you have to install through bootcamp. there are a couple of ways to do so and so far the "safest" way to do it would be through the download from nvidia called ntune. this is only going to be good for you if you are able to 1. control the heat of your computer and keep it low preferably under 85' F. 2. you would simply be making the processing of the images you see on the screen "faster " but not the audio so if you have problems with the audio, drop out, lag in sound, etc. OCing the mbp will not help you at all.
my advice is what has been said by serato before, place all your music into one location, keep it clean and do not make too many folders inside other folders because it might be also a part of the lagging issues that people are experiencing.

hi all

just updating on my problem i was having.

there were no hardware problems but if u look at the attached file an application called 'mds' was using 99.1% of the processor time. the app mds is the spotlight search element of the operating system.

spotlight was continually trying to index the hard disk, as the index was corrupt it could not complete and tried to start the process again continually.

this was obviously slowing the comp down and using alot of hard drive time which i hope was causing the problem with serato. i will be testing it tonight and hope all goes well! if i dont get back to the forum then all is well. so far the comp is back to its amazing state!

i attached the screenshot so that others can check incase there problem is the same or maybe just similar.

hope u all find solutions for ur lagging probems. best of luck!

hey cnewton

i don't think we're able to view that attachment - think it goes straight to the admins.

any chance you could post it to a hosting site? photobucket for example?

sorry didnt know that..

right iv never used photobucket but i think this like should get u to the pic.

s939.photobucket.com

From what I can find, MDS is a process relating to Spotlight:

(taken from discussions.apple.com)

Try opening Disk Utility and run the Verify Disk function on your hard drive(s) to make sure the fault doesn't lie there.

Also take a look at this thread as there are some other suggestions there -> forums.macrumors.com

Hi Dylan/Michael,
I found that OS 10.6.3 was released to the developpers.
Have you tried to install this update ?

sorry I mean a new beta version of 10.6.3

Corex .. do you have some news ?

Nope. No news. I haven't had any time to goto an Apple store, nor have I found my installation discs. I'm going to ask a friend and borrow his original discs and try to see if it boots up with any error as Dylan said to try.

Dylan, any word from Apple on correcting the issue? Every dj with a new macbook pro I've seen in my city I've tried to see if they had the same problem and so far I've yet to find anyone without it so it can't be just a few lemons..

Hey guys,

We're still looking into this issue and trying to collect all the info we can to pass on to Apple.

One avenue we're exploring is to see if the issue may related to Spotlight and how it indexes. If anyone is keen, could you please download the Spotless application (it's shareware :) and disable Spotlight indexing for the hard drive you are having this lag with. You can get Spotless here -> www.fixamacsoftware.com (click link). Please let us know if this helps or not!

Hi Michael,
I have disabled Spotlight but nothing changes.
Please let me known if you have other test request.

Hey gevola,

Thanks for trying it out :) This might work for some people, but not everyone.

Anyone else get a chance to try it? Any success?

Corex is this also happening to you on earlier versions of scratch live? Ie. versions before 1.9.2?

This is a little disappointing, as I am just in the process of buying a MacBook Pro 13", 2.53Ghz / 4Gb and an SL3 for DJing.

A number of things I was thinking whislt reading this:

1 - Has anyone tried running XP/Vista via BootCamp with SSL to see if the issue persists - this could pin point an OS or hardware issue?

2 - I have bought a Seagate Momentus 500Gb 7200rpm drive to replace my stock 320Gb, I am going to try installing and running SSL on both to see if there is any difference

3 - What would happen if only an External Drive was used for retaining your music (USB2.0 or FW800 drive)? As this would not use the SATA controller?

Having not used Serato Live before I might not be on the right track (no punn intended!) but maybe worth a look.

BTW - AJA (who provide Video Cards for Macs) provide a FREE Hard Drive test - which is here - www.aja.com
They describe the tests as.... The disk speed tests differ from standard disk I/O performance applications in that they specifically test the system under conditions typically encountered with video capture, playback and editing.

Hope this helps.... I should be getting my MacBook Pro early next week.

Jon

Hi Jon,


That's a very interesting idea! Is anyone able to try this out?

10.6.3 ... just downloaded .. and installed .....

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"S"A"M"E" "P"R"O"B"L"E"M"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"S"A"M"E" "P"R"O"B"L"E"M"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"S"A"M"E" "P"R"O"B"L"E"M"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"S"A"M"E" "P"R"O"B"L"E"M"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jon/Michael...

I have Installed winXP SP3 with BootCAMP …

The delay loading the track seems not present..
About the problem of stuttering .. seems present but not as on OS X ( is quite acceptable ).
The problem is that I got a LOT of USB drop-out ( on winXP ).
So I set the USB buffer to 4 …

All MP3 was stored inside the first partition of MAC, and I have used the same database.

I will execute more test about the lag on loading tracks and I let you know.

So were is the problem hardware or driver ????

Hi Corex/Michael,

I have some other news for you.

I have executed the update of BootCamp on WinXP (now version is 3.1).
After the update the date of driver of nVidia card is now January 2010.
Restart of WinXP
Set USB buffer to 1
Mix for about 45 minutes ....

No lag and no stuttering of waveform !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will execute more test in the next days .. but now seems the the problem is related to the driver on MAC....

Hi Michael,
if I have understood correctly, you have a MAC with this type of problem.
Why yu don't try to install winXP, update Bootcamp and then check if the problem is still visible or not ?
I Corex, do you have time and the possibility to execute my same test ?

Ciao.

Hi gevola,

Thanks for testing that out, it seems to point to OS X having the problem. Is anyone else able to confirm this in bootcamp?

Ciao Michael ..

I think the problem is related to the driver of nVidia graphic card.

In fact in my test, I found that after install winXP on MAC and then installed BootCamp on Windows ( that install all drivers for the MAC ), I got the same problem ...
In this case the driver of nVidia was dated April 2009.

Then I have updated the BootCamp on windows (support.apple.com) .. and found that the date on nVidia driver is now January 2010.
Then tried again SL .. and NO Stuttering / NO lag .......
So my hipotesys is that the problem is in the graphic card driver ...

Anyway this is what I found, yesterday.... and in the next days I will check again if all works correctly using winXP on an HW MAC ...
What should be interesting if other guys can do the test ...

Michael, if I have understood correctly your software engineer have a MAC with similar problem.
So, can you try to do my same test ?

Ciao.

Gevola,

Unfortunately I don't have the time nor resources to execute the bootcamp – nor is it feasible for me since I use my MBP for school along with djing and cant afford to use XP because of some applications.

I have yet to find someone to borrow an original install disc to do the harddrive test with though. Once I find one I'll get it done.

Atleast we're getting close to the issue..

Thanks

Hi Corex .. no no no ..
We can't close this issue.
Please check my thread www.serato.com
Chad from Rane told me that the this week they will try to execute some test ..
I hope they can replicate my test .. so then they can contact Apple reporting more details.

Gevola,

I didn't mean close the issue, I meant close as in getting near to pin-pointing the issue.

ok, i posted way back in the thread about the major mac problem i was having, causing the whole computer to run as slow as....vista... but after apple care fixed that issue, which was software related, and my mac is running at full speed again... im sorry to say i am still getting that 1 second lag when dragging a track into the deck. as annoying as this is, im still able to dj perfectly fine. the only thing that confuses me is that this lag is only present what the box is plugged in...and offline mode has no lagging at all.. just throwing this in the air, but has anyone looked into possible usb issues? obviously with the sound and deck control working fine, there cant be anything wrong with the speed (or maybe there can?.. im no expert) but just trying to brainstorm here....

Hi cnewton .. which was pre problem that Apple care fixed ?
sorry but I'm lost.

Hi Micheal,

I made two videos that show the difference between MAC OS and WinXP ( on a MAC HW ).

The first report the stuttering of waveform every 10 second
( when the audio track is at these positions : 3:28 / 3:38 / 3:48 / 3:58 / 4.08 )
www.mediafire.com

The second ( on WinXP ) works better.
www.mediafire.com

okk.. this thread is not for the stuttering ... right.

But just to inform you that my same test was executed aslo by DeeJay Fingers
www.serato.com

Moreover as I wrote here www.serato.com
I confirm that on WinXP I didn't get a lag loading a track.

Please let me known as I must proceed.

hi gevola,

Basically, it was all to do with spotlight, there was a corrupt index file causing spotlight to constantly try and index the hard drive repeatedly... taking up about 99.1% of processing time (the actual process in activity monitor is "MDS"). obviously this resulted in a very slow computer, and serato was a nightmare, plus any program i tried to run. but now that it is fixed, i still get the lag, and very subtle stuttering of waveform.

just to let you know, the links above go straight to home page, no files...

is it fixed by upgrading to OSX 10.6.3 v1.1?

none
:(

I'm afraid to upgrade from 10.6 to 10.6.3

Does the problem only show up with OSX 10.6.2?

yess.. sorry

this is the right link:

The first report the stuttering of waveform every 10 second
( when the audio track is at these positions : 3:28 / 3:38 / 3:48 / 3:58 / 4.08 )
www.mediafire.com on MAC OS X.wmv

The second ( on WinXP ) works better.
www.mediafire.com Stutter on WinXP.wmv

hmmm the problem is visible in all 10.6.X version of OS...

Sorry DJ Sean P I don't understand if you have or not the problem.

There's no audio on these videos...also I didn't notice any stuttering in your OSX video

Any answers yet?.....

iv recently switched to itch with the xone dx and still getting the lag on that... so its not just scratch live i dont think...

also get the stuttering waveform every 10 seconds or so...

The solution ??? ... buy a PC with windows XP ... :(

unfortunately the problem is on Apple side .....

understood but is serato any closer to finding out why this is happening?

Hey cnewton,

We've had an idea of what is causing the problem for a while now, I posted this back in February:

We've had reports that issue is not present with the new MacBook Pros. We've asked for anyone who has one of these machines to upload a system profile, so we can see what chipset these machines have :)

I have NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with a mcp79 chip on my machine which is a macbook pro with a 2.53 intel, 4gb of ram.

I have noticed the problem since day one, but always thought its something specific to just my computer. hope there will be a solution soon, cuz it's soooo noticeable especially when you are trying to load songs quick and its just not happening

I fear that now there are new MacBook Pro's out with new video cards that Apple will not persue this issue on laptop's with the older MCP79 chipset...

Is it up to nVidia to provide a new driver or Apple? As that is where the issue lies....

Oh my and I thought Mac's didn't have as much problems with Serato as my windows xp system - yikes

its hardly a show stopper ninjagaijin.... or are you trolling??? :)

in fact until someone mentioned it i was happy with the small "lag" that i experienced when loading new tracks.... not knowing any different I just dealt with it....

No not trolling just interested in a new laptop down the line and can't decide between Mac or PC. I had heard that Macs had few to no issues with Serato.. but I would prefer a PC for the applications I use. This sort of thread pushes me more towards a nice high end PC laptop rather than Mac..

I guess it isn't the biggest deal in the world but still if I am going to lash out on a machine SPECIFICALLY for Serato I would like Serato to work to its utmost potential

I just bought a MBP last week. I also have the 1-2 sec lag when loading a track along with the shaky waveform about every 10 sec. It's fine with me as long as the audio keeps playing but I would love to get this worked out. I will add... the MBP runs MUCH better then my Dell PC with win7 ever did. But I still hope we can get this fixed!!!

Here are my specs:
15.4-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display
Mac OS X Snow Leopard
4GB memory
250GB hard drive
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

good solution and much cheaper

Correct! I have a new MBP and haven't had an issue. I've attached my sys profile.

Hey djmallon,

Thanks for that, your computer is indeed using a different chipset.

thanks for the reply michael...

so what now? must we take this up with apple? will we have a case or will we just get nowhere?

or shall we just accept this as it is and go on with our lives?


sorry.. i understand this is not serato's problem just wondering if you have any suggestions?


thanks for all the help on this issue.

djmallon

can i just clarify you're using the stock hard drive (the one that came with the MBP) and not one you've put in yourself?

My hd is the one that came from Apple...

What chipset does yours have?

Stock HD yes, but my music is all stored on a firewire800/400/usb external drive.



Under Serial ATA in my System profiler, it shows 'Intel 5 Series Chipset'

Sorry, that's a lie. I have a couple of files on the HD...don't think I've had problems with it though.

Guys, just looking at the "seed to Developers" of OS X 10.6.4 includes something that "may" be of interest to us.... Note.. "According to reports, the current build focuses on Graphics Driver"

Here's hoping they are releasing a new driver for the 9400M

----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

As originally reported, Apple has began to seed the new version of Snow Leopard, 10.6.4.

Today Apple seeded the first build of OS X 10.6.4, build 10F37.

According to reports, the current build focuses on Graphics Drivers, SMB, Time Machine backups, USB, and VoiceOver.

Some additional info:

Included in this update:

Addresses compatibility issues with OpenGL-based applications
Resolves 3D animation, drop frame, or frame lock issues

The "drop frame" and "frame lock" issues sound interesting....

HI JonLangford, please can you write the link of Apple were you read this information ?

here you go:

news.worldofapple.com

Just reading back through this thread....

Is everyone now saying the lag on loading (the reason this thread seems to have started) to linked to the waveform stuttering?

I only ask as my waveforms have been shaking for as long as I can remember but with no performance impact.

I've only noticed the lag in loading tracks when I swapped out my stock HD for a bigger one. I've only managed to get round it by using hdapm...

Just wanted to clarify as I "joined" this thread for the lag problem but people are coming here to report stuttering waveform problems...

Waveform stuttering has 0 impact on the actual track lag issue. I believe visually speaking the waveforms stutter on all Macs.

@bumbo08 What is HDAPM?

Good links and info. That is exciting to read.

Hey cnewton,


Definitely! We've made them aware of this issue, it would be great if users could tell them about it too :) Hopefully they can get a chipset update out to resolve this issue.

Hey Jon,


Those are graphics card related issues, so I don't think they'll help with this issue sorry :(

hi Michael, yeah.. like another guy had said... things are getting a little clouded with "display" lag and lag due from the SATA controller.... which is also slightly confused by the fact it is manufactured by nVidia (a predominantly Graphics Card manufacturer)

:)

I agree - definitely confusing :) But hopefully if enough people raise this issue with them they'll get an update out.

i purchased a MacBook Pro 13in. in Nov 2009 to use with Serato.When searching through songs, loading songs, and moving the arrow, the waveforms stutter and the turntables freeze. When the first track ends and Serato switches to Internal Mode, the turntables freeze. The audio seems ok, and no drop outs are indicated. is this thread about that? am i following the right forum?

How hard is it to understand what the issue this thread is talking about when there are over 100 posts on it AND videos explaining it...

On another note I've raised the issue with apple but haven't gotten any where really. Sent them an email regarding this issue and pointed them towards this thread.

Hey Corex

Without knowing the in depth technical side of it, so someone may correct me on small aspects here, but HDAPM is a workaround that tells the Mac to constantly have the hard drive spin at full RPM and never park - thereby meaning there's no lag.

Here's a link: mckinlay.net.nz

It's fairly easy to implement and since I have there have been NO lag issues at all.

Obviously it's not good for the long term health of the drive but they're cheap enough these days :-) and it nicely gets rid of my lag problem.

Hey Corex,


Did you receive any reply from Apple?

hey corex no need to be a jerk......

Hi Guys,
I have been patiently reading this particular post trying to figure out if the issue sated here is the same issue I have. After much reading and watching (video). I have confirmed that the same problem stated in this issue is the same problem I am faced with. I had 2 gigs that this same issue surfaced. Lag time when loading the right deck while the left deck is playing. That lag sometimes occurs for 5 sec. but I have experienced a longer lag time causing my audio to drop out and a beachball appearing for more than a minute. I popped in a cd and restarted my computer. And then it happened again. I do hope this issue gets fixed, As paid performers, our clients expect the best from us. On top of the "booing" after we lose audio, we have to deal with the clients expecting a discount because of the issue. Thank you so much for allowing me to voice out my concern. I do hope this thing gets resolved. I am running an older Macbook OS X 10.5.8 but experiencing the exact same problem as posted above. Thanks
Martin

Hi Martyreeus

can you let us know what Mac you are running?

Better still can you see from your system profile if your Mac is using the NVIDIA MCP79 AHCI Sata Controller?

thanks

S

Corex

Any news??

Negative. Didn't get a reply from Apple.

totally experiencing this. experienced it last night, which ruined a really great gig. then it beachballed multiple times just as a major promoter walked in the room. i managed to smoothly transition on to an ipod the first time, but the second time everything was awful, the floor was cleared, etc. and yes, it also seems to happen mostly under club conditions. practicing at home, everything seems great.

currently i'm using itch and a vci-300 with a vfx-1. but i'm about this close to going to traktor and a vci-100 because of this issue.

attached, please find my system profile.

Hi Tinsletown

from your system profile we can see this about your SATA controller

Product: MCP79 AHCI

As mentioned throughout this thread the issue you are experiencing is related to this chip and is therefore nothing that we, (or any other manufacturer) have control of. It may be that Apple address this in a OS update.

You may be experiencing something else though, especially if you are only seeing the problem at Gigs...it may be that your Mac is overheating? Do you keep it ventilated?

s

mac is generally ventillated, on a stand. i've experienced this a little bit in my house, but am experiencing it much more at gigs.

an interesting note. my setup is generally having my itunes library stored entirely on an external drive, attached with a firewire 800 cable. i brought a couple of playlists on to my internal, freeing them from itunes, and then made crates within itch that read these files. so far, this setup seems much more stable.

any ideas why this might be the case?

Hey tinseltown,

So just to confirm - you were having these problems when playing files from an external Firewire drive?

yep. itunes files from external drive. can get specs for drive if that's helpful.

No that's ok :) Your issue isn't the same as what has been reported in this thread, so it would be best to start your own help request. This way we can better help and track your issue. You can start a new request by clicking this link -> www.serato.com.

Thanks!

Sorry if this has been mentioned...i only read a couple of posts. Are the files in Question all bought on the itunes strore? and if not what is your preference for importing set too? I import to mp3 not Acc and although itunes files load with no drop out from audio, screen dose freeze for a second, but then catches itself up. Find a problem track and convert it to mp3 in itunes and try the newly imported one..
Again sry if this was mentioned

I'm not wanting to tempt fate but although i have visual "stuttering" of the waveform and small pause when loading a new track on to a different deck i do not experience any audio glitches/beachballs or similar.

I have a mid 2009 MacBook Pro 13", the only difference i have is that the day i bought it I also bought a Seagate 7200rpm 500gb internal drive and immediately installed it....

One thing I want to clear up... a couple of people have said that they are running an acapella over a track and then load up another track, this then sends the "mix" way off..... I assume they are running 3 decks on an SL3 or is there another way they are doing this?

I must admit I haven't ever tested that... and just to confirm i too have the MCP79 AHCI chipset from nVidia

No, it's a style of mixing where you'll drop a new track on one of the playing decks and it should play straight away (either the track is edited so the song starts on the first beat or play from first cue point is enabled). Unfortunately due to this hard drive lag, when the track is loaded there is a slight delay, so the track loaded doesn't drop on the beat and the mix goes out.

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up.... Not my style of mixing, but I'll give it a shot and see how it perfoms.

Is it only dragging that initiates this or does SHIFT + RIGHT (or LEFT) work - assuming you have the loading a track protection turned off?

Hi,

My AHCI sata controller is not the afrementioned. . . .

I am running an older 2007 Macbook with windows os x 10.5.8 Thanks

Martin

i hope mac fixes the NVIDIA MCP79 AHCI Sata Controller
i have the same issues as stated in this topic ....

Surely we could all get together to petition Apple with this?

Corex, have you raised this directly with Apple at all? Putting more names to it might help our cause, and with support from Serato this might add some weight.

www.serato.com

Just bought a new MacBook Pro the other day. Had no clue that there was a problem this severe.

This is really unbearable as it ruins the whole Scratch Live experience. I just had to force quit Scratch Live after loading an AIFF file to the other deck - the beachball appeared and didn't disappear even after several minutes.

This is a major problem, so it's hard to understand that there could be no fix around this. I'm really disappointed that I can't trust in my Scratch Live no more. I've never had any stability issues with the program, but now it seems like a bad idea to play a gig with this combo. And that's really, really irritating...

This is a major deal for us... Apple might not thinks so, but when we rely on everything working together... it's huge... Apple better get this fixed Asap...

thanks gevola, i added my voice to the discussion some time ago, however this is just the Apple Discussion Forum and as you can see this discussion has got nowhere and has lost momentum.....

Some 280 odd posts on this discussion and a disappointing 6 posts on the Apple Forum... hardly going to turn any heads at Apple is it?

...sorry if i'm sounding a little negative but with the number of people on here who appear to have the issue and some backing from Serato/RANE we should at least be able to make Apple look up???

You would hope, anyway!

So what do we have to do to get Apple to see whats going on?

The apple discussion board isn't even monitored nor looked at by Apple so any issues raised on it are simply dealt with by other people and not Apple staff. Sticky situation here gents.

Agreed Corex, they even remove any "finger pointing" or out of turn remarks from their Forums if things get heated...

I appreciate its not Serato/RANE's issue but i think they could be doing more to help us through the right channels at Apple..

I work for an IT Company but unfortunately its all Windows based so i can't even lean on Apple like I can through our Partner channels at Microsoft...

Michael R (or someone at Serato) do you have Developer Channels in to Apple at all??

I think this is Serato's issue. Very much so.

I know many dj's who changed PC to Apple when they started playing with Serato. It was widely believed that Mac OS X was the best platform for Serato.

What if Adobe released a new version of Photoshop that wouldn't work work Mac OS X? Could they be saying that "this is Adobe's problem, not ours"?

I've read what the Serato folks have written on this matter and I can totally understand their tricky situation. But that's what this is: a tricky situation.

I disagree Jack of Speed....

its hard for Serato to take ownership of this issue when tests have shown that it is clearly a driver issue with a specific SATA controller on a specific model of MacBook Pro

What I would like from them is some visible support/contact with Apple to help us drive this.

+1

Yeah, I agree. I just meant that it's a huuuge problem for Scratch Live if the program isn't working on a platform that's really popular amongst dj's. I know Serato isn't the one to blame though, didn't mean it that way.

I hear ya... but so far it has only affected this small group of MacBook Pro's, which have already been superceded....

Even with this issue (and for me its purely a visual issue) i would still recommend a Mac over a PC for this..... and I work in IT with PCs all the time!

:0)

Here's still hoping we can get some action

Wanted to give an update, this is in regards to the half second lag that throws the mix off beat...nothing to do with the stuttering graphics.

I'm running one of the new i7 Macbook Pro's, 15in. I used to keep my music on an external firewire drive and never experienced any delay when loading tracks on my 13in macbook, or this new laptop.

I recently bought a 1TB drive, and removed my superdrive so I can buy a caddy and put the old 500gig drive in it.

This is the 1TB drive: www.newegg.ca

So the 1TB drive is in the usual HD spot, and the non-music drive is in the caddy. SInce moving my music over, I've noticed that split second delay when loading a track. This occurs regardless a track is already playing in Deck A or B.

I've tried using HDAPM, didn't make a difference. I've also tried disabling Spotlight...that didn't help. Drive's got a good 600 gigs free so it's not a resource thing either.

Any other ideas? Maybe the sudden motion sensor? I'd rather not disable that...

I've attached an updated System Profile.

I was just reading the manual and noticed the section about the Audio Cache setting. YOu guys mention that a smaller setting will let the tracks load faster.

I currently have it set on the max (60?). Would bringing it down to 15 or 30 affect performance? I already have my overviews built, and my zoom level for the waveforms is one out from the closet zoom level.

Moving it down to 15 would not effect performance

Cool, I'm gonna try that out when I get home to my setup and see if it makes a difference.

Hey guys. Just wanna give my two cents. I think the chips are running too hot. I was running tests all day. We got the best results when we put it on a rocketfish laptop stand that put the laptop at a tilted angle and aired out the bottom. I took off the bottom piece of the Speck hard case I have also.

I spin videos. We went from "best" to "high" to "medium" and medium had the best results. Firewire 800 Mybook studio external hard drive was used.

Specs:
Macbook Pro 17" i7 2.66 GHz
8GB ram
OSX 10.6.3


SSL 20049
Video SL driver 1.2020
-Bluetooth was off
-Wireless was off
-Energy saver settings were correct
-Screen saver set to never

I'm hoping there's an easier fix so we can utilize the full potential of these new MBPs. I know its frustrating but I hope something pans out.

Thanks.

@DJ Stubby – I don't understand what you were testing for? This issue doesn't have anything to do with videos.

Corex, I probably should have started a new help thread but this is really similar to what is happening to me on videos. Only there are delays then video and audio drop out all together.

yes, please start a new help thread. Thank you ;)

So I ended up moving it down to 15 and trying it out...nothing really changed. Sometimes I'd get the delay, and other times I wouldn't. It's weird. Gonna keep fiddling around.

So I'm looking at buying a macbook pro. But this issue sounds disgusting, how to know if a mac i buy has SATA controller

Product: MCP79 AHCI ?

how to know here what model has what?
support.apple.com

This is a real worry before I buy a laptop..?

I'm calling Mac sales atm to ask them if they can tell me which ones don't have the NVIDIA MCP79 controller!!

Good luck I think ahhaa..

So I spoke to their support, sales couldn't even understand me, the tech support said no fix is in the works AT ALL, I told them how this totally undermines my confidence to spend twice the amount on a PC laptop on a Macbook pro, since only the latest unibody ones will work they said. I said how I was looking at older refurbished models - but now that will not be of interest since it most likely won't work.

So PC laptops here I come.

Goodbye Mac, I really wanted to know thee.

Please can someone get Mac onto this for a fix.

I would consider using them if Serato would work!!

Currently tossing up between an Asus & a Sony vaio e series.. I think i'll go Asus.. 2 year warranty.

I'm having trouble with this too... and I wonder if this delay upon loading tracks has anything to do with SSL's history function.

I've noticed in activity monitor that each time I load a track, data is being written to the hard drive. Also, I've noticed that when this 'delay' issue is at its worst, it is often accompanied by a message at the bottom of the SSL UI saying 'writing tags..."

What is being written to the drive when I load a track? Is it possible that playback of the loaded track cannot start until this process is completed? Could this possibly be causing the load delay?

Gnosis,

It sounds like you haven't analyzed all your files so SSL is writing that info to the file when you load it.

First click on the 'files' tab underneath the right virtual deck, and click the 'rescan id3 tag' option in the lower left of the files window.
This will remind SSL of what files have been analyzed and which ones haven't.
Once its done scanning, unplug your Rane hardware and click the 'analyze files' tab on the left side of the SSL screen.. above the word 'all'.

Let it analyze whatever files it needs and then give it a test.

If your still having issues please post in a new thread. Thanks!

Ok, I started a new thread.

www.serato.com

... but I still think it may pertain to this 'lag' issue. It's not just a problem of unscanned Tags or Overviews...

fml

i know that the previous macbook models work well with serato, my question is about the 13.3 macbook pro 2.4 GHz new model , does it have the audio lag issue that the rest of the new macbook pros are having?

find the system profiler and select "serial-ATA"

if you are using the NVidia MCP79 chipset then you will more than likely encounter the issues with lag.

not sure how the new MBPs are doing on this issue

ok i will call mac and see if the new models still carry this chipset. Are the new I processer giving problems with serato also?

13-inch: 2.4GHz
Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
250GB hard drive1
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics

This is what i want to buy, is it safe?

Hey Dj-Ali,

Like cnewton said above, you'll need to find out what chipset the computer has:

Ok i tought the NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics is the chipset, i guess not. I will do more research!

That's the graphics card ;)