hmm....anyone?

Have you tried beatmatching with the same song loaded to both sides?

Is it worse on certain particular songs?

One possible reason, if you're playing stuff ripped from vinyl: There is always a certain amount of small speed variations inherent to vinyl playback (the turntable's inherent wow and flutter, the inherent wow and flutter from the cutting lathe used to create the lacquer master, and irregularities in the vinyl).

When you play such files back in SSL under vinyl-control, you are then adding yet another layer of unavoidable speed irregularities (from the playback of the control record affecting the playback speed of the file). Perhaps the additive effect is enough to make riding very long mixes noticeably more difficult.

do you have the 2nd edition of the control records?
i know the first ones had this problem.

Nope not vinyl rips. As for 2nd edition, i'll look into it but I have like 6 pairs of control records and were bought within the last 2 months so I am pretty sure they are second edition.

Yes, I have tried 2 of the same songs. I get it perfectly matched but then they just keep going off beat after a couple seconds. Never happens on real vinyl.

Anyone who works for serato???

Where is your music coming from?

I have seen some badly-encoded MP3 files where the rhythm was "de-quantized" enough to cause the kind of thing you're talking about, but that was quite a long time ago.

Have you tried this with both decks in internal mode? What do the scopes look like in SSL when you're playing the control-records?

Hi JD 2009,

is this in ABS or REL mode?

Hello,

First, yes all my vinyls are second generation. Second, tried to mix both decks in internal mode, works perfectly when I do that. Third, I run relative mode.

Also, the pitch percent (say I have it -2.0) will move from 1.9 to 2.0 to 2.1 and sometimes up to 2.2. Now, I know using vinyl you cannot expect it to stay exactly at 2.0 or anything of that. However, usually when I get the mix to the right speed (both records playing at the same speed) I can hold this mix for quite some time with minor adjustments. But right now it just starts going out of sync so fast and I constantly have to baby it all throughout the mix. Tried it with 2 regular vinyl's and I just maybe had to nudge one record a couple times and other then that it was good to go.

Any settings in terms of screen updates per second, threshold, buffer I should be using to optimize and possibly get rid of this problem (or at least make it somewhat better)?

I have another laptop that I own (but uses Vista) and I am going to try Serato on there to see if this problem has anything to do with my macbook.

I get my music from multiple sources. Some directly from label e-mails, some from itunes, beatport, mashup sites, etc. I am pretty sure they are encoded with the right settings. Even if some are not, I am having this issue with pretty much any song in my library.

could you try ABS mode and see if that makes any difference?

Tried in absolute mode, same basic thing. Have to keep adjusting the pitch constantly to keep it on beat. Once I get it on beat it lasts about 10 seconds then one becomes faster. This could happen with vinyl too, however once you fix that it usually rides for a good amount of time before you may need to adjust the pitch again...this is not the case here.

thanks for letting us know about this JD, we're going to have to do some fairly extensive testing on our end to confirm your findings, and keep you posted about progress.

In the mean time, if any one else reading this is finding similar problems, please chime in.

Cheers

- Josh

Hi JD... just a few questions (they're going to be pretty obvious and I don't mean to offend).

- Is the Pitch Lock ON or OFF when you let the mix ride?
- Have you tested the techs? Is it possible that the turntables could be off?

Kiwi,

Well the issue is not really if the techs are off because I can ride a mix for as long as I need with regular vinyl. I have tried both pitch lock on and off, doesn't seem to make a difference.

I plan on getting new stylus's for my needles (although I keep them in really good condition and are fairly new) to see if that makes any difference. I also tested an older version of Serato, and did not have as much of an issue...

I thought it was just me. I have the same problem.

I also have the same problem, I tried every possible way to fix this problem. I can have two songs with the same beat for around 10 seconds. Someone told me to adjust the pitch on the turntables and as long as I have key lock on, adjusting the pitch wont affect the mix, well it did. I really need help by anyone that had this problem and fixed it or by a Serato representative.

Well I created a thread about the same type of pitch problem only I am using Cd's...You told me that my CDJ's must have a problem and NOT the Serato software....Hmmmm?

hi, Ive been having the same problem to. i posted a very similar topic as jd a week ago. i have owned ssl since 2005 and cant ever remember having this problem. I thought i had sorted it out yesterday by increasing the latency to around 7 or 8 but again today i had similar problems. I then tried cleaning my needles thoroughly using a tooth brush, and re calibrating the system and now i have lowered the latency to number 1 which is the best setting for performance and everything seems to be working fine. i will keep you posted on how it is tommorrow because this has been really annoying me lately. i know exactly what jd is on about because i tried my real vinyl last week and realised the massive difference.

Here is an update that I think is important.

I kept the exact same setup in terms of same needles, technics, USB cord, mixer, etc, but switched my laptop. I installed Serato on my Toshiba Satellite which is pretty new, the specs are as follows:
Toshiba Satellite P205
2032 MB RAM
32 Bit Vista
Anyways, the problem with pitch drifting totally disappeared. I can hold mixes as long as I need. This is how I remember Serato being. However, I do not want to trust Vista in long term mixing. I also do not want to use my Toshiba Satellite (17 Inches) when I DJ. I prefer my Macbook, but I am dumbfounded to why it is acting the way it is. It is also not just me, so I don't think it's my computer unless everyone having a problem needs 2 gig ram.

Yep, well this is still unconfirmed...

DO NOT USE VISTA!!!! Vista drains so much of your computer processing power that it just is not good for overall performance. The Serato guys know that I used to bitch about this when Vista was first released. This was because I value performance since I like to scratch.

Best solution to get the most out of your scratch live if your a PC guy like me:
Dual boot your lap top with XP Lite (Just the bare bones operating system...nothing else). Turn off your Wifi and make sure your not online and running other programs simultaneously as this will take away from available processor speed.

As for the drift...You might already know this as a trick-of-the-trade but you might want to try putting a piece of tape (I find 3-hole punch reinforments work great)in the hole on the vinle to tighten it up enough so that it doesn't move "shimmy" when it's on the turntable.

If all else fails, develop patience as Serato was not designed to mix itself...if it did, we'd all pretty much be out of a job =/

We all know the issues with Vista, it is well known on this forum and for SSL users in general. As I said before, I do not want to use my PC laptop but I was testing it in reference to pitch drifting vs. my Macbook. As for your piece of tape trick, I have utilized this. As I mentioned before, I used the same equipment and got different results with 2 different computers. For your patience theory, I rather you stay on topic if you are going to join the discussion. This has nothing to do with serato mixing itself or trying to find the easiest way to use Serato. The people who are having this problem find it almost impossible to keep 2 beats synced up because one is always slowing up or speeding up (I am not talking about normal Vinyl changes). If you read the thread and paid attention, we mention that we never had this problem with real vinyl nor did we have this problem before with Serato. If you do not have this problem then it may be hard to understand. This has nothing to do with adjusting the pitch a little to keep it on beat every now and then. This has to do with the beat going out of sync every couple seconds and having to constantly ride the pitch. Imagine trying to go back and forth with one hand on the pitch (I've done it but I rather not). Users who are not experiencing this problem think that it is just a DJ not knowing how to DJ, which is completely false.

I am relatively new to serato, but not new to mixing. I havent had my equipment set up for a while, like 8 months so I thought it was just me being rusty, but I have encountered the same problem. I can keep the same 2 records on beat for a long time when using vinyl, but when using serato, Im always fiddling with the pitch control. It was a little annoying but I chalked it up as to being a little rusty. After seeing this thread, I think I might be on to something here. I pretty much use absolute mode exclusively, I like the complete vinyl feel. I am using all ripped records from my collection though, so maybe that has something to do with it too. But I definitely see the op's problem and am experiencing it.

Are you all on Vista or PC here? If this was a problem for all users and we all used the same demo Mp3, then I could definitely agree is is bug in SSl, but if it is a few random users, perhaps there are other variables in this problem- ie: turntables, CPU, vinyl, mp3 coding..so on. Maybe we could all use and try the same Mp3 or is it all? Also maybe try in internal mode to see if it is any different.

Then stick to vinyl!

nice useless comment...dont get me wrong, I love vinyl. The reason I use serato is to eliminate the need to carry crate upon crate and countless bags to gigs. That is the one thing I LOVE about serato. Im going to try to recalibrate and see if that fixes my problem.

right im back after testing my serato again. I think i have def solved the problem bearing in mind i am running a 1.8ghz with 750ram so by no means a super powerful laptop so jd you shouldnt have a problem with your machine. I know you have probably allready calibrated your system and so did i until i done i few extra tweaks and now its perfect. Im gonna run through everything i done in detail because im sure you might have the same problem as i did. Right put the needles on the records and set your pitch to 0 then press the threshold button down for 3 seconds, now go to the virtual decks and get two copies of the same track ready. Now before you start to play the records go into internal mode and make sure the virtual pitch is set to 0 if its not which it probably wont be adjust it so it is. to adjust just use the shortcut keys which are E pitch down and R pitch up for left deck and D pitch down and F pitch up for right deck. Ive also got my audio cache down to 15 seconds and my maximum screen updates are set to 5. My usb buffer setting is set all the way to the left. Right now switch your virtual decks back to rel mode or abs mobe and play the left deck then the right deck seperatly to make sure the pitch on the virtual deck stays at 0.0 and dosnt fluctuate at all. If it does which it shouldnt after changing the pitch to 0 in internal mode then you need to adjust your threshold again. Now mix the same records into each other and see if the pitch wavers. my turntables now lock in and dont move at all. I had the exect same problem as you and now it is perfect after doing this tweak. Good luck and let me know if you get it sorted. this nightmare with mine allmost made me go and buy a new laptop and needles so ive just saved myself around 600pounds after making these changes.

Chris,

Thanks for the tip bro. I will definitely try this. My question is, what happens when you change the speed to say -.2.0 on your techs, does everything stay in sync for the most part? Also, when you say make sure the pitch on the virtual deck stays at 0.0, how can you tell this when you switch back to relative mode to play your record? So in relative mode, after assigning the virtual deck to 0.0 pitch and adjusting the pitch to 0.0 on the techs, the pitch will read 0.0 exact in relative mode? You get no wavering at all? I.e. 0.0, -0.1, 0.1...

Wow, problem solved. Why even take the time to write such useless comments in a HELP section?

Hi, that is a good idea about the 1 track. However, this is not a universal Serato issue. That is why I been trying to figure it out. I have performed on others macbooks with no problem. Either way, I have this problem on my macbook but not my Vista. Could be something simple that we are not doing, that is why we are trying different things. I will try Chris's suggestion and see what happens.

I've been having the same issues as JD too, only noticeable since I upgraded from my ibook g4 running Tiger to my MacBook Pro in Leopard. The pitch % to the left on the virtual deck constantly fluctuates, not badly but enough to make constant adjustments necessary. I'm about to leave for a gig so I'll try Chris' suggestion over the weekend.

i have a same problem.Taught that was a normal serato thing.It s really pisses me off beacuse i have to do fast mixing.It s just get drifting after 30 sec.
Anyone find a way to solve this????

And i know that many people have a problem with this and they think it s normal...

i v just tried the Chris D. technique and it didn t work:(

I tried reseting thresholds like Chris recommended and it worked with mp3 but it's still a little tricky when it comes to songs ripped from vinyl

Im having the same sort of problem, however :

If I set my turntable pitch to +2.0 - in the virtual deck, the pitch will be +1.5/1.6 (fluctuating)

How can I make this more accurate?

ok, i had this problem myself for a little while and this is what i found.

Isolate your turntables.!!!!

the bass from the system is enough to come through the needles and actually manipulate the control signal enough to slow down and speed up the mp3......

I use tennis balls cut in half under each leg of my tables. helps tons. and new records and good needles with weight help too......

thanks

I just upgraded from 1.6 to 1.8 about a week ago. I never noticed the pitch drifting until I upgraded. It was not apparent early in the night, but after 2 hours of playing, something was off. I have seen this 3 times in the last week. Same thing as JD, the mixes wouldn't hold past a few seconds. I also noticed when I would go to beatmatch two songs that were say 110 bpm, one would have to be increased +3 or so. Weird. Never had this problem before. I was originally thinking it was my tables since it took a couple hours (thermal drift or something), but interesting to hear other peoples comments.

Running 1200 MK5 and 1200 M3D
Macbook, 2 gig RAM
REL Mode

Last night, it was real bad. Could not hold a mix for more then a few seconds. Very hard to mix with your hand consistently on the pitch fader or making your record faster or slower. No matter how accurate your beatmatch was it would be off within a few seconds. I also noticed the screen was fidgeting a bit. I hope this can be fixed on the next version of Serato.

Anyone has found a fix for drifting.If not please Rane guys fix this problem in next version of Serato.It s really annoying.This is b.....t.

I experienced similar problems, really annoying. I was using older needles though and I thought they were fine because regular records sounded OK.

BUT When I bought new ones it really cleaned up the pitch drifting. Not to say that's the only reason but if you're using older needles maybe you should try it.

If your screen is 'fidgeting' make sure you have your wireless turned off, virus protection turned off, and try reducing your screen refresh rate in the Serato setup.

Alleluyah.
I v just upgrade to 1.8.1 and my serato is working perfectly for now.Was newer working like this before.pitch drifting is gone and everything s working more stable.Whole new experience now when i playing.
Thanx guy s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I've upgraded to ver1.8.1 and I've upgraded my RAM to gig under OS XP. still aint makin no difference =S

I mean upgraded to 2gig RAM and jus recently replaced Vista with XP

im also having this problem i constantly have to adjust the pitch on my tables even with the same song !!! just to test it i used doubles of the same song and the pitch at 0 dam same thing it seems the right table keeps falling downeven at the same pitch i have tried new control records color and black ones no luck WTF is going on i also upgraded to 1.8.1 any help would really be appreciated from the Gurus!

decrease your buffer setting as low as possible?

i had a problem like this on my old laptop(crap spec) wher it would go out like this but it was due to the usb dropout....everytime it dropped out i would drift a little...

try with a higher latency and see if it still has this problem.

yeah!
I think that Serato guys shuld take this problem seriously beacuse many people that i know have a problem with it.I have two laptop s at home both of them have the same spec.:
1,6 Ghz Dual Core,
1 Gig Ram (Dell & lenovo) and both of them used to have pitch drifting untill i upgrade to 1.8.1.It was working for me.
I m almost go back to play records again beacuse of it.Really frustrating!

just wondering what people in this thread think about this idea
scratchlive.net

not to jack the thread

I was having this problem the other night and after doing what you just wrote it seems to have cured it....the same track locks for the whole song,no problem.


this got me thinking tho-

if you (as most do) record from records you can get a little flutter/speed changes to the mp3 which is no good....is ther any software that could sort this out so your temp is TOTALLY constant on your digital copy.

sort of like how ableton live can line up your beats so the are spot on with the temp of your project/set

Yeah I've noticed this problem too...

I'm wondering if it's because I'm collaborating my digital vinyl when there is no music playing (perhaps you need to estimate when there is sound from the speakers to get a more accurate reading?).

Question to Chris D: I'll try your method next gig but how does the virtual pitch switch in relative mode affect your pitch in absolute mode (which you adjust with your turntable's pitch)?

sorry I meant the virtual pitch shift in INTERNAL mode and how it could possible affect absolute mode...

im wondering the same thing do you have to do this everytime you start SSL i still have no luck wih my drift i just cannot hold a track without adjusting the pitch even the same song at "0" on quartz lock i dont think it can be my techs on regular vinyl doubles its perfect any more help would be really appreciated

You need to calibrate at the volume you will be playing at. The estimate slider sets the signal to noise ratio. It doesn't make sense to calibrate with no music playing (unless you are playing in your headphones at home) and will give false readings and troubles. Also you absolutely need to calibrate EVERY TIME you move/change your setup. At home you might not need to calibrate every time, but definitely anytime you play at a gig or move your turntables/mixer/SL1 box, etc. it's vital that you recalibrate the estimate threshold.

hey konix so you are saying for example pause your left table with the needle on top of record while the right table is playing live at the sound you will be playing at and hit the estimate button for three seconds? and vice versa is that correct ?

yeah thats what he means.

i will do it twice a night
when i start, and again as the volume gets louder later on in the night.
you can do it while your playing live, takes 2 seconds.

And can not colibrating properly CAUSE PITCH DRIFTING though?

I v updated to 1.8.1 and pitch drifting was gone.Finnaly serato was working great!
I v played two gig s like that and then the old s..t with pitch drifting come back again.WEIRD!!!!!!!!
I didn t make any change considering my needles,software,turnatables,mixer....
Really WEIRD.I t was working perfect for some time and now the pitch drifitng is back.Anyone solve this problem with pitch drifting.I wrote a couple of messages about this but no one ever reply.

Gotta say I've experienced the same problems of pitch drifting out.

I think it might be the quality of files as a lot of my funk MP3s which may have been vinyl ripped drift while my hip hop - most definitely CD rips are so far ok.

Someone from Serato really needs to get involved with this thread.

Ok,i think i found what it is.
First this "estimate" button is s..t.
When i calibrate using estimate button i always got the pitch drifting.Today i done it without that .I was just moving "estimate" button by myself bit by bit till i lost pitch drifting completely and i v finally make it work perfectly.
Now i can hold a mix for about 2-3 minutes.Amazing.
The whole problem was in this "estimate" button which probabaly didn t work for me.
So all you have to do is manually fix it to position that suits best for you.I put it on 62.4 and works really great.

even when you increase the pitch to +2% or -5% for example?

yap.Even then.i mix it normally same like a mix vinyl.Same feeling,no drifting.

It can't be an mp3 quality thing! Most of my tacks are CD rips (and converted from WMA to 320kps mp3s with a program called 'Protected Music Converter').

I get the drifting on on these CD rips and I REFUSE to believe that I would have to rerip all my mp3s again!! (the mp3s sound exactly the same as the WMAs when played through windows media player!).

Jakke, I'll try that manual estiamte thing! How do you know where the correct place for the estimate slider is? How can you tell when that you've placed it correctly?

So I am not alone in this matter either. I figured it was just the program and there was no use being obsessive about it, but my OCD kicked in. I tested it with as many different songs, pitch levels and so on.
When my pitch was locked it would fluctuate between -0.1%, -0.2%, sometimes -0.3% and then up to the positive range. I thought my motors were failing because I heard a very quick bend in a few songs, but it does not duplicate this with vinyl.

that sounds like the normal 'wow' of a turntable Roasted, with the pitch locked a .3% fluctuation is quite normal.

as long as it fluctuates around 0 pitch that would not cause the average speed to drift...

I just picked up serato...been dj'ing for 9 years now..i love it and love the fact i can mix as normal with vinyl all my digital files!! I did notice this pitch drifting though...I know my tables are good but with searto after about 4 or so hours of mixing....0.0% in serarto would be at around my +3.0%...thats WAY OFF...I am using vista w/sp1 and my machine runs very smooth...just this pitch drifting.

so scratch live reports 0% pitch, but something else (what?) is reporting +3% ?

sorry....my table will be pitched at aruond +3.0%

I have noticed the same thing... that some songs are way off by +/- 3-4%. I had not noticed this until recently though - like last 6 months. I did go back to version 1.6.2 and it seemed ok, although still some issues. I had 1.6 crash on me though, so I am back at 1.8.

when you say 'off' what are you measuring against?

+/- 3-4% of what? what are you reading?

Hello Gents. I am currently having this exact issue with the pitch shifting while in a club setting with heavy bass. Although the calibration is moving the slider all the way to the right a signal is showing up on the scope when nothing is playing on that deck. It is the vibration being picked up by the needle or in my case by the active platter on my Denon HS5500.

so the bass is causing the platters to move without being touched?

you need to isolate the decks from the bass

when i saw my calibration moving the threshold all the way to the right it was because the ground was not connected on the turntable.

oh and the circle looked really dirty/vibration

I heard from a friend that use serato as well...that if you use a cd deck rather than your vinyl that the the pitch drifting is not a concern...i wonder why this is an issue...i hoped it fixed in 1.8.2. I STLL LOVE SERATO =)

A good thing to remember with Turntables is that the pitch according to the slider markings is not always correct. This is often the case with older 1200's that need a tune up. For example, I have an older one at home that the pitch is wayyy out on. I need to move the slider up to around +5 to get any kind of pitch increase.
A good way to measure this on a 1200 is to use the strobe light scope by the power switch - That is the only accurate way to tell what the pitch is with older turntables.

CD players on the other hand tend to have a much more accurate digital pitch display which is why they generally mirror exactly what Scratch LIVE is reports.
They also don't have the same level of wow and flutter that an analogue turntables + records usually have.

Nick-
I actually went out and bought a 1200 turntable because I thought it was the age of my other turntable. I found that I had the same issue. Could it be the setup on the turntable? I have experienced this in both the studio and the club.

THANK YOU...I KNOW MY GEAR IS TOP NOTCH AND WELL TAKEN CARE OF!!! I know there are many others out there with the same exact problem....by proccess of elimination we can be pretty sure it has something to do with the software and NOT the hardware. Its not a big problem unless you have to do a long 4-6 hour set or if your throwing a party and using serato all night. the only way to fix this right now is by shutting serato down and re-opening the program....good luck makin that fly in the middle of a set....I LOVE SERATO but this can be a big problem if its not looked into on your end serato.

I mean..if someone out there is tryin to mix on a pair of gemini decks or some fisher price play tables...i could see blamin the tables...but when we are usin high end decks...then the problem has to be with the software.

i could be way off...lol...but it seems we are all experiencing this pitch drifting problem after several hours of continuous mixing...right?

I think you gays are just noticing the wow and flutter of the turntable. SSL is just accurate enough react to it.


you keep saying that something is off. but off of what? what are you measuring this +/- 3-4% off against? what are you looking at to determine that it is off by that much?

I used Serato for the first time last night on CDJ 200's. I thought i was hearing things at first when it sounded as though my track was out of tune. I looked and it was fluctuating on screen by around 0.5 - 1.0%.
I know most of this discussion is about vinyl but should this be happening with CD players??
I will be using CDJ 1000 MK3's tonight so will give it another go and see what happens. Just seems very strange. All my tracks are ripped from actual record label promo's and original purchased CD's.