ha I boycott pioneer. another elitist tool.

hope so, I'm going next weekend. still debating to wait for the bridge to hit itch and buy an apc 40 or buy an s4 or new pioneer. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm decisions. any rough idea on when the bridge for itch will be released?

here is my though on WHEN ... i figure a new controller has to come out. That just seems to be the way ITCH is working... so an anouncement at bpm a hands on in winter NAMM the we all know what namm stands for ( Not Available till Mid March )

laraway -- what ITCH controller if any are you using now???

I dont think pioneer's price will be cheap. most likely they will keep the product super high and use their name to attract customers.

maybe pioneer will change, but the ns7 and v7 killed the pio with one blow.

hopefully pio releases something great at a great price but Im not holding my breath at all.

i dont know the current trend is 'mid range pricing' hopefully pioneer is using ITCH as thier attempt to get in on that trend

hmmm interesting what could pioneer possibly offer that is not already available on the current ITCH controllers, we got already spinning motorized platters, 4 decks with xone hmmm. id love for an all in one solution like the ns7 but with analog mixer that has pioneer DJMish FX :D

i figure since xone was first 4 deck controller pio will be first bridge enabled.... maybe it will be just a mixer ... an option to use with your v7's? a dedicated effects controller and sampler for itch? video?

I'll I want from a Pioneer controller is a CDJ-2000 without the CD player, USB (input) or soundcard. Strictly a HID controller (HIDJ-2000). I'd buy two in a heart beat. Guess we'll find out in a week.

yeah that would be nice

why no cd...the price?

my reason is i dont even but stuff on cd.... i mean i use my iphone for music and laptop at home... no need to add the machanics for a straigh fotward controller solution

+1

I always felt like the pio CDJ concept was rubbish (platter and user friendly wise). Guess I'm an old school Denon addict. The V7 even pushed me further away from it.

On the other hand is the pio DJM800 the best mixer I've ever used (and I worked with almost every brand). So, it's not I've got something against the brand "pioneer"

Anyway, the idea of an HIDJ-2000 would not attract me at all. It can never become a club standard, because the CDJ/1000-CDJ2000 is.
I've seen the CDJ2000 - SSL combo demo on you tube, and ok, it's impressive, but still that platter and those terrible cue points. and a button for a 4 beat instant loop? (and don't even think about the price?)

HA!...The V7 rocks more then ever compared with that...for far more less money.
So what's the fuss all about? it hardly can get better then the V7.

vci 300 and vfx1 :-)

+1 @Kmxorbit

must we always go to this term..... 'club standard' will be very different int he next several years

i reakky think in theory the vci-300 vfx-1 and apc40 is a very powerful tool... i use it now without bridge.....

I think there will not be much of a "club standard" for much longer... with all the options out there now, people will be using many different setups. Its not we are lugging around vinyl or CDs anymore and thats the only medium... now we just have to lug around our preferred controller/s and laptop computer.. A club really only needs to have a mixer to interface with the house PA.

If they make it like the NS7 with spinning BUT LARGER platters... I'm sold and so will my NS7... (on Ebay).

The ONE killer feature of the CDJ 900/2000s is being able to perform without relying on CDs OR a computer at all. Granted, Pioneer basically embedded one into each CDJ 900/2000... but being able to bring only a USB flashdrive to perform is a killer feature.

-KLH

kaskade was interviewed at electric zoo and made jokes about how he had to convince people that he was actually kaskade...because all he had with him were some flashdrives, no cd cases or anything else that people usually associate dj's with

Yeah, if IEMs (in-ear monitors) get popular instead of big headphones, we'll never "look" like DJs again. Anyone that shows up with a flashdrive and (seemingly) iPod headphones might be the DJ.

I'm kinda joking, but DJ Fez, you actually do make a good point. There's an expectation of what DJs look like - TTs, big headphones, CD binders - it'll be interesting to see how tech changes will impact this expectation.

-KLH

Yeah, that is a killer feature... especially because it works in stand alone mode.
(But I still hate how they work.)

so you can play CDs on TTs huh? lol... :)

obviously, just messing around..

lol.

kraal, do you have any reference about the rumours? Not saying that this is an invention from you... I'd like to gather some more information if possible. Thanks.

My NS7 plays vinyl, CDs, AND 192/24 8-track tapes! It's just how I roll. LOL!

-KLH

no that is all speculation on that one just assuming a time line

Kraal, Where did you get that rumour from then?

hmmmmmmmmm .... should i revel my source? I do believe my source is on these forums

we can wait till tomorrow to prover if the rumor is correct or not right????

actually i am surprized more of you don't know about this site :)

www.digitaldjtips.com

heh could it be a CDJ-like controller for ITCH that lets you play both CDs and also control ITCH. I'd jump into buying one right away.

here is my fantasy pioneer controller ... the djm-2000 with some decent size ( possibly motorized) platters on the side

definitely a fantasy hehe

from an industrial standpoint, it just makes sense, though.

i know it isnt itch's model but just think if the xonedx had allen and heath's effects built into the mixer part plus the itch effects ..... i think that would be what pioneer should do or denon or whoever is next.... the v7 proves that that is the direction people would lean towards

www.pioneer.eu
No controller by the looks of it

well that's weak --- um well i now know where i WON'T be getting my rumors from

ok confirmed i have just been to bpm, pioneer have no controller for either traktor or scratch, But on the plus side i have seen the Bridge and it is awesome, lots to look forward to for itch guys hopefully early 2011

thanks for the update. sucks....because honestly someone will have to make a controller that offers what the NI S4 offers: four channels, HID jogs, high quality sound card.

Serato really dropped the ball BIG TIME by not keeping up. New controllers were announced, new software is available 1 Nov and Itch is still a red headed step child. Itch 2.0 has been talked about since 2009, instead what did we get --- 1.7 that isn't even usable. Or the DX that hasn't wored properly since 1.6.

I love Itch, the waveforms are awesome the Grids are better than Traktors but really they Serato has not done Itch any justice.

Sorry for the rant, but I was really hoping Pioneer would be used to bring Itch to the next level. Guess not.

1 Nov. Is very tempting to go back to Traktor and the new S4, this coming for a customer who owns a NS7 AND a VCI-300.

i wouldnt count serato out just yet.... i mean sure we all wanted to see something here but the is still winter namm..... and sometime first isnt best. if the s4 drops maybe seeing what people like and dont like will make the next serato controller the 'next big thing'

@ haze324

Are you 100% sure you're squeezing every bit out of your ITCH gear? I personally would NEVER, ever trade my V7s/NS7 for a cramped S4.

Choose a weapon, and master it: a recipe for success.

I will have to agree with djceria. my only two complains about the ns7 are the lack of 4-channel and its weight. Everything else is top notch.

I will be extremely happy if there is an Itch controller that maintains the same quality built as the NS7 and specs, yet offers 4-channel and optimum portability.

What I dislike about every other controller out there is the fact that they do not pack with balanced XLR, sturdy and rugged power source, or XLR mic input.

I have seen the traktor S4 today, its a nice piece of kit and has great features, i was considering this myself, but after seeing the bridge in action today(i even got to play around with it) the S4 doesnt even come close, so hold up be paitent. from what i seen today i think great things are coming to itch 2011. And serato have said today that they are really open to suggestions

Cerla - I love my NS7 and VCI-300 i truly enjoy playing with them more than any traktor session, but there are soooo many limitations that after waiting for Serato to show ANY signs of advancement on Itch I have lost my patience. Lets think about this, the solution to 1.7 is to use the previous 1.5 release. Come on, thats not an advancement. Plenty of companies have introduced new products and we still are the step childs to SSL. How long have we been hearing about Itch 2.0. Now the last word is sometime in 2011?!?!

I truly do enjoy Itch more than Traktor, but one company is putting out products to meet consumer needs while another sits back and allows the competion to release a new product and steel customers while they can't even produce a release that's workable in a live environment. That's just bad business.

The answer to what I'm looking for are not "work around" solutions that I should try to "squeeze" out. They are simple functions that other products offer.

Serato is not going to keep Itch customers (a midi controller user group) while other companies have more to offer. They can't even provide a stable release.

I'm not trying to argue, or be negative and say this sucks and that sucks, etc. But at some point we have to be honest here with the folks from Serato that read this and ask what gives.

Gary - have you seen The Bridge work with Itch?

So you are going to wait patiently for a product you do not know how it will work, if it will be stable, or what hardware you may be required to use.

I am Indeed, because i have seen what an excellent job the serato engineers have done with the bridge for scratch so i will make an educated guess :) that if they programmed the bridge for scratch so well and they also have created both scratch and itch that the same priciple will apply to the bridge and itch. But hey its a free world u can choose not to wait and get the S4 and it will bring u lots of good fun im sure, but i personally will wait for the Bridge and itch (cause if the bridge for itch is as good as scratch then the s4 pales in comparison), if im wrong im wrong but hey whats a few months to wait and see

i hear ya man, I really do. I hope it really does kick some ass, but what if you wait a few months and nothing, then 2011 turns into Summer of 2011. What if the bridge is released and there are drop outs. I think there are quite a few posts on here that consider Itch the step child of SSL with far less features. So it's kinda hard for me to hang my hopes on a product that does not exist and we have no idea when it will be released. I keep thinking back on the empty promises of Itch 2.0 being released and it never came. I am not saying the S4 is the best thing out. I personally feel the waveforms and beatgrids offer me more than any amount of effects Traktor will ever have.....but the combo of software and controller is something that Itch can not provide and we have NO idea when it will come and if it will work as well was what you've seen.

I think Serato again, let Itch be the step child to SSL and this time Native Instruments has 1 up'ed them by releasing the S4 at a time when there is no competition.

again, this was not directed at you, but towards the product thanks for not getting defensive.

you asre about to play a really dangerous game with this thought path... sell your ITCH gear cause the s4 is out then lets say early 2011 ITCH 2.0 and a new controller comes out which has more feature and thebridge to boot for itch. nopw what do you do sell your s4 and complain that traktor isnt keeping up????

Kraal, part of the fun is also the gear for me. I'm a gadget/gear junkie, hence the VCI AND the NS7.

but RIGHT NOW one company has successfully produced and marketed a product, introduced it, given a timeline and stayed true to it.

while Serato has been promising 2.0 for for well over a year, and currently has a release out that you can't play with out getting drop outs.

My point to this is not who is better. Clearly I enjoy Itch more....my point is that we deserve more from Serato. NI is delivering to thier customer base and these guys here are not. You can't argue that.....especially not with what if, and maybes. Your competition for gigs is buying an S4 on 1 November and dropping samples, effects, etc. while we Itch users are getting drop outs have two channels and some half ass effects.

Its A difficult one cause Traktor is also a really Great piece of software, I guess it boils down to preference in the End, But i liked traktor for a long time started using Itch and hated it (xone dx with 1.6) but then 1.7 came out and now i love itch and the Dx, But again Haze324 if u do decide to buy the S4 u will have great fun as i seen it in action today, the sample banks are a great touch and the touch sensitive platters are nice, But if i was to give u advise id wait an see give it till early 2011 say feb or march latest. and if now show then at least u tried. Oh and if you are a ableton user its even more so worth the wait.

ok i will give you this one.... except i still feel ITCH is new not sure how fast development was for traktor at this stange.

So don't lose time ranting. Act.

Go and get your shiny new toy. Sell your ITCH stuff (that keeps its value very well, ask yourself why).

We'll all welcome you back very soon, when the next big thing from ITCH ecosystem will be announced (because it will happen, granted).

cerla - there are threads and threads and threads on this forum about guys ranting on when Itch is going to get a sampler, when are we going to get better effects, and the best and most popular rant "have we turned the corner on Itch 2.0"

I pre-ordered and S4 and will keep my VCI-300 as a back up system and honestly, deep down I do hope that Itch will come up with a system that is equivalent to the features and hardware the S4 offers. If that's going to take a year, then i will have a year of enjoyment with an S4 vs. coming on here and discussing why my head room or my 10.6.4. macbook causes so many drop outs and that the answer to that is to revert back to last years 1.5 release.

rant over.

Thanks for already offering to welcome me back. You guys are a good a group and I enjoy reading what this site offers. Good luck.

I

I wouldn't have pre-ordered the S4... ;-)

^
Workflow wise and how I like to spin, the S4 layout is perfect to my needs - the hardware and the S4 features. I have yet to read a bad review on the S4 and it got tons of praise at BPM. More than a few scratch DJ's have compared the feel of the jogs to a CDJ2000 and that's what sold me.

Now, Traktor as a software I'm not Not entirely thrilled about – aside from the “functions” sampler and quality of effects. I enjoy Itch’s stacked wavefroms, colored waveforms, beatgridding process, simple layout, library, etc. But there is nothing to say that Itch will EVER have the hardware to support how I enjoy to play.

My whole point of this rant is that Serato failed by not announcing or that it was in the works with Pioneer to release a create a controller. So, we’re back to rumors, hopes and no timeline. Much like 2.0 has been for the past year. This is not a knock on the product or Itch vs. Traktor….this is a bad business plan by Serato and just like myself there’s folks that are getting the S4 because it has no competition right now. They delivered a sweet product and these guys didn’t.

Maybe my long posts will inspire Serato to announce something on Oct 31st and sway some S4 from buying and waiting a bit longer. My guess would be something is announced at Winter NAMM and not available till Spring. I’m not that patient.

You know very little about ITCH 2.0.

The current 1.7 is simply the 2.0 version (with beatgrids) that Serato promised last year. They decided to release it as 1.7, keeping the 2.0 moniker for the version that is currently in alpha test.

Serato will not be "inspired by your long post to announce something on Oct 31st", but take a look at the current ITCH hardware offering and do the math.

I must be bad at math? I don't get it man.....

Nevermind :-) Enjoy your S4.

Cerla,

Thanks man – I’m sure I will.

…and good luck to the hardware and software developers. I truly hope they deliver a bad @ss product (soon)…..competition and having choices is a good thing for all of us.


**I still say leaking some info would derail some of the S4 momentum**

To each one, its own's. My personal opinion about the S4 is that NI achieved Double Gold in Clutter: cluttered UI + (very) cluttered controller.

And only a handful of DJs who are salivating on the S4 will actually use the features that are cluttering the unit, in the same fashion as ITCH users mostly don't use even basic things like cue points, and settle for mere CD emulation.

PS the same applies to the xone:DX, I'm not a Serato-taliban :)

I agree. My VCI-300 is as close to 2 CDJ’s and a 2 channel mixer as it gets. Fun, easy to set up, portable, etc. I enjoy playing on it tons (as my NS7 as well). However you can still get more functionality from “digital” DJing (like beatgrids) and consuers are asking for more of these tools, hence a VFX-1,1.7, the Bridge.

Traktor GUI = WAY too clutterd. With the 1-1 mapping of the controller I plan to eliminate many of the on screen viewing options (EQ’s Faders, etc) and try to maintain a simple look. The challenge is that you have many types of DJ’s and you have to satisfy as many of them as possible in ONE shot and that’s a difficult task. There’s guys at the NI forum saying the S4 sucks because it only has 4 stander hot cues. WTF??? I never go past 2 or 3… the need EIGHT. Also it has EIGHT sampler banks. For me that’s also overkill. I thought the DX was gonna be the perfect controller but having Jogs that were not touch sensitive killed it.

So I think the S4 has done a good job of meeting many needs on one shot. HID Jogs that have gotten great reviews, sampler deck, 1-1 mapping, 4 channels, quality sound card, etc. In “MY” perfect world the best software and hardware are a mix between Itch and Traktor and the DX and S4. Itch’s simple layout and waveforms, and gridding, with Traktors Effects and sample banks.

The other thing about the clutter controller is that some DJ’s use 2-3 controllers to get all they need. I would assume for Itch/Bridge integration I would need secondary controller OR Pioneer, A&H, whoever would have to release a similar cluttered controller with enough knobs and sliders to make it all work. (A solid Pioneer unit similar to an S4 would be a homerun for all DJ’s that use controllers – for obvious Pioneer standard reasons)

ps. I'm currently in Baghdad....and I'm not an S4-Taliban!

ahahah! US army?

I was...now I just work for them. Pays better :)


I got to play at a local Hookah bar the other night. Fun times!

Wow... mad respect... even if you are a friggin' switcher :D

first song of the night --- I dropped Arab Money!!! hahahahah, I had to.

well the rumor of the pioneer unit came from a souce that was 0-2 as far as rumors go and i will no longer post any rumors by them... i was hoping they were right and i would look like a genius. The S4 runs on a 'itch-like " version of traktor so we will hope that the software is stable.....

about serato anouncing another controller.... hmmmm i dont think they should until it is ready I mean look at when the xone:dx was announced and how long it took to hit the shelf same with the ns7.

haze324 as far as you switching to traktor -- cool more power to you and i just hope you are not a bitter x-ITCH user and will post on this board with some 'must have' feature request after using your new set.

Kraal,

No bitter X-Itch user here. I've been a Traktor user for a while, but thier lack of HID jog wheel support brought me over to Itch. The VCI-100 was "cool" for all the things DJTT has done with it, but not my style. My 1200's becaome a pain in the ass to move so i checked out an NS7 and love it. I ended up getting a VCI-300 for more poratbility and have been a huge fan of Itch's 1-1, and jog wheel/platter support --- but I think we all agree that Itch has been missing "somthing". So know S4 supports HID jogs. Like I said my dream machine and software are somewhere in between the S4 and Itch. If Itch can fill that gap in the future chances are I would switch back, but for now, I'll deal with a cramed GUI and colorless waveforms. It's a compromise either way. I'm a fan of both.

Having played on a s4, its rubbish.. too many buttons, a lot of which are in totally the wrong place, too much going on on the screen, the jog wheels where rubbish. All the guys i was with at Bpm said the same. AND ITS MASSIVE!!

I still feel my vci is the best 1:1 controller. I can just turn up at a gig, plug in and rock it.

(One thing i did notice at bmp is that 90% of the stands used traktor and 90% had crashed!)

that is what i always hear about traktor --- why i choose serato but have no personal experience so never commented on this

Whats funny is that on a Traktor Forum they posted pics of BPM and one of the pics was a computer screen running Itch and it had the windos error message up that it was about to close. LOL. It never fails both sides are alway saying the same about each other.

There's a reason why at one of the largest DJ expo's in europe a large amount of stands were running Traktor, there's also a reason why tons of great DJ's in the US run Serato. They are the two best DJ applications. I've NEVER had a crash with either.

JR - what didn't you like about the jogs? Were they stiff? Felt cheap? How would you compare the resonse to those of the VCI-300? How do they compare to actual CDJ jogs?

Please respond to this (with the quote) in the S4 thread:

serato.com

-KLH

My criteria these days is about being a DJ in the traditional sense.

That means I need fully functioning and well thought out playlists (preparing in advance, and on the fly selection). I need the ability to think on my feet while selecting songs and have the software functionality match that thought/action process.

Secondly, the stacked/colored waveforms are critical extra information to inform how/what my mix should be done.

Finally, the flexible beat grid is the ace in the hole for me.

I've been using traktor for years, but the above points Serato wins hands down. And these things are fundamental to the experience of DJing.

I like the concept of the S4 for more of a live performance in lieu of using Ableton Live IMO, but for traditional DJing (which has worked for something like half a century at this point), Serato/Itch has that covered.

I don't know why someone would leave the current software at this point despite what the other competitors might offer if they can't match the above features. Those are fundamental.

(plus there is no equivalent to the 1 to 1 mapping of my V7s which I really like - spinning platters are nice, even though they are heavy. Gotta get a work out at some point though. lol)

rob.

Well Put Rob,
I have used traktor before itch and enjoyed playing with its great features, but i always thought something was missing, I realized what that was when i started using itch
For me it basicly boils down to the fact that itch is just more fun to play and beacuse of this i find my mixes are more creative and i get more of a buzz which the crowd also feels, as many features as traktor has i could never Go back, Now I cant wait Till the Bridge because u will have the simple fun to use layout of itch and the power of ableton. I think the apc 40 and my xone dx will be the ultimate setup.